ONCE BROKEN FAITH open thread!

Mm, yes, a lot of my pet theories involve Amandine's mother being human, so I see where you're coming from, here. Then again, another of my pet theories is that Amandine might have been ambivalent about her own human heritage and so deliberately purged it. If she had (this is "if" upon "if", I know), then I don't know if she'd have passed it on to her daughter or not.

My extra-wild theory is that this is where the night-haunts come from. They're Amandine's purged mortality, little snippets of Firstborn death out to eat everyone and then die themselves, because Dochas Sidhe are what you get when Oberon breeds with a mortal: blood and death. Muahaha. Or something.

Seanan has specifically said that a child of Oberon and a human would be a pureblood First (aka, not a changeling). So Amandine's mother could indeed have been human, and not have had to change her own blood to be pureblood.

That said, in Late Eclipses, the Luidaeg stated that Toby was back to where she'd started before Amandine's meddling. It may have been more than 50% fae (given Amandine was First) but we should remember that Toby's weakness in the first 3 books was due to Amandine's meddling, not Toby's natural state.

You are right, of course, about Amandine being fully fae in a sense. On the other hand, Amandine was definitely behaving like someone ashamed of her heritage -- pretending to be Daoine Sidhe and not Firstborn. So maybe I haven't got it fully right -- I certainly hope not, tbh! -- but we'll see where these themes go.

Weirdly enough, it seems like the changeling (or, at least, mixed) state is one of the more powerful advantages that a member of the Dochas Sidhe can hold. Toby gets a lot of mileage out of shifting her own blood one way or the other. So I do wonder if Amandine, as the Dochas Sidhe Firstborn, could still have accessed some of those advantages even as she was less affected by their downsides...

I don't think Amandine is ashamed of her heritage, she's afraid of it. While the full facts regarding the Dochas Sidhe have yet to be revealed, it's pretty clear Oberon created them for a purpose, and there are powerful Fae that don't want to see that purpose fulfilled.

Well, given that we've seen Toby act like a living hope chest (changing Chelsea to a pureblood and Gillian to a full human, not to mention what she was able to do for the changelings of the Silences), shift her own blood under the influence of goblin fruit, and actually remove entire pieces of mixed-bloods' heritage (the false Queen and Rayseline). And that's as a changeling! Imagine what she could do as a pureblood - and there's foreshadowing that indicates she will eventually have to turn herself pureblood - and hell, imagine what Amandine could potentially do as a Firstborn. It's hard to blame her for being afraid of what she is; her race is actually quite frightening. It's no wonder that there are folks who don't want the Dochas Sidhe around (and they obviously don't, look what's going on with the few known to exist).

August's disappearance, Oberon and the Queens' disappearance, Amandine's absence, whether it's due to instability or whatever - I'm sure it's all connected, and I'd put money on Evening being heavily involved in like, all of it.

I love this series.

You're right, Amandine can't be blamed for being afraid. I'm assuming she knows exactly what Oberon's intentions were in creating the Dochas Sidhe, and when he disappeared she was left to carry that burden alone. Unfortunately it appears she is ill suited to that task; she thought she could protect Toby by making her more human, but all she really did was make her terribly vulnerable, with absolutely no clue as to what she really is.

Evening is certainly at the center of it all. She can't harm Toby directly, but her power over the Daoine Sidhe gives her an army of minions she can use, including Sylvester. Imagine what would happen if she used her influence to convince him Toby had to be killed? Toby would be at a huge disadvantage based solely on the vast difference in their combat abilities, but the biggest issue would be having to face the man that's essentially been a second father to her. Quentin is Daoine Sidhe too, and there is absolutely no way Toby could harm him, not even to save her own life.

Really the best move for Toby is what she threatened to do, get back to where they left Evening with iron and silver and, to borrow a phrase from Heavy Metal, tear her into little bitsy pieces and bury her alive. But she won't do that, because she's a hero.

Your comment tweaked a memory, so I did some digging. Here is what the Luidaeg had to say about Amandine's parentage in The Winter Long:

"Oberon's her father, making her the youngest of my siblings, but her mother is not my mother, nor my father's other bride. Who her mother is I can't say, but if you go looking, you might find some interesting truths hidden under some equally interesting lies."

So, here's my latest theory: Evening Winterrose/Eira Rosynhwyr is Amandine's mother. It explains the connection to blood and roses, and possibly also Evening's unveiled disdain for Toby. She certainly believes that Toby's father was human.

"You're a half-breed. A mongrel. You should have never existed, in this world or any other. I knew Amandine was perverse, but I had no idea she would lower herself to lying with a human before the day that news of your birth was brought to me." (The Winter Long)

She calls Toby her niece there, but that could just a half-truth. If she is Amandine's mother, than Toby is both her granddaughter and her niece, and if she's so disgusted at the thought of a changeling niece, how much more a changeling granddaughter?

I thought of another point regarding the Luidaeg's comment. "Who her mother is I can't say.." We know there's a lot of things the Luidaeg isn't permitted to say, but one in particular is she can't even say her sister's name. Was she trying to give Toby a clue here? Only time will tell.

I'm pretty sure Ammandine's heritage ties to the Tam Lin ride. I think her mother was Janet.

If I remember correctly, didn't the Luidaeg say that the night haunts ate their mother due to their hunger for fae flesh?

Although the "purged mortality" bit is a really cool idea - falls in line with the Undines being Maeve's tears in my mind.