ONCE BROKEN FAITH open thread!

Toby makes a very similar remark in the main text (in regards to Karen rather than Cassie) -- specifically, wondering if Karen might be a changling (in the original meaning of the word -- a child swapped at birth). Toby /didn't/ actually try to measure Karen's heritage, however.

Just throwing this out there: Perhaps they are the Roane reborn? I believe it was mentioned in one of the past books that they were a race of Seers. If true, this /would/ tie up quite a few loose ends, wouldn't it?

Wow, that's an interesting suggestion! I wondered about what was going on there, given there's not meant to have been an oneiromancer for centuries -- and now two seers in one family -- and noticed the "changeling" comment, but hadn't made that leap...

I just can't help but feel like this all has something to do with the running clock on the Selkies that the Luideag has mentioned. Maybe she's somehow going to repopulate the Roann?

Beats me, but seriously, when are we gonna find out what happens with the Selkies already? I'm pretty sure the deadline's come and gone by now....

I know, I said I'd stop asking because it ain't happening, but this is two books of taunting now. (And poor drunk Liz Ryan.)

I have this suspicion, you see...

Okay, so Toby - and presumably the hope chests - cannot add bloodlines which are not already present. She cannot turn a pureblood Tuatha de Danaan into a Tylwyth Teg, no matter how many yarrow branches they shove up their a--.

But!

We have a couple of established mechanics to give someone abilities of a bloodline they do not have. One is the Daoine Sidhe (and Dochas Sidhe) ability to ride the blood; being a trick which a skilled alchemist can also manage.

Another is that a simple, mortal human can become a fey by wearing the skin of a Roane.

Well. When that is being done, when the blood from another line is roaring through their veins, what happens if someone changes the balance of the blood then?

If it could be done at all, if the confluence of such powerful magics did not cause some crazy result, it would still be a delicate, chancy operation. Maybe it would need a Dochas Sidhe, using a hope chest, and using the borrowed power you can only get from the blood of a Firstborn. And maybe even then, even with that, it would have to be done at just the right time, in just the right way. But maybe then. I wonder.


Now, Seanan has directly said that this is not possible, that a person cannot have their blood shifted to a bloodline not their own. I did not pose it in just this way, however. And, ultimately, authorial intent and canon is the word of god. The only thing I'm confident of is that if I were fey, and presented with a working and reliable system of magic, someone would surely have loaded my butt with elfshot to make sure that I didn't end up destroying the knowe with my clearly foolish experiments.

Following that thought...

It has been mentioned in the short stories, that Children on the Selkies, while being born human, feel drawn towards the sea. They say that they long for the open ocean in a way that they can not experience unless they are lucky enough to get a skin handed down to them.

Maybe the Luidaeg had to wait generations before bringing back her children because while their children are born Human, they carry some small amount of "Selkie magic" in their blood. If that is the case, Toby, or Amandine, would be able to shift them towards that. And because whatever magic they have originated from the skin, when they have their blood shifted, they would become Roan again.

I imagine this would be more painful for the nearly human bearer of the skin, as compared to a normal changeling or mixblood, as basically their entire genetic makeup is being rewritten, not just "patched" with something that they already posses.

Additional notes after some research:

Toby actually meets a pure-blood Roane -- and yes, she is a seer. She is also specifically described as having blue eyes (One Salt City, Kindle Edition, page 249): "...and a golden-haired woman with the uniformly blue eyes characteristic of the Roane."). No other details are provided about the eyes, however -- but we can safely assume that they aren't unusually bright, because /that/ is a characteristic of the Tylwyth Teg (it comes up repeatedly whenever Walter is introduced).

Cassandra's eyes are specifically described as blue in the Drams and Slumbers novella (Once Broken Faith, Kindle Edition, page 377: "...They were an unprepossessing shade of blue, the sort of thing no one would choose for an illusion unless they were natural."). The color of Karen's eyes doesn't seem to be given in Once Broken Faith -- despite several obvious opportunities to do so (her eyes are mentioned in the context of tears in several places), although given that Karen appears many times in this book it is very likely that I missed something.

Oddly, Cassandra's eyes are described as "blue-grey" in A Local Habitation (during the birthday scene near the beginning of the book), but the none of the other Browns eye color is stated (in that scene -- Karen also plays a large role in this book, so short of re-reading the entire book). There are several reasonable explanations for this, though: "Something changed between A Local Habitation and Once Broken Faith, either in that book or in 'One Salt Sea' " or "Just a continuity glitch" or even "Toby was just flat-out wrong in A Local Habitation, as identifying the eye color of those she meets /isn't/ one of her powers :)"

So, yeah, the theory looks to have some legs.

Roane huh? That is an interesting theory, and it would seem no answer some questions. It would certainly/y explain why Arden was confused; she said her nanny had described the varios races to her, in preparation for her one day becoming queen, but it's very likely she didn't bother with the Roane, since they're believed to be extinct. Toby has said that Stacy's fae ancestry is Wight, but it's plausible Stacy herself is unaware of the truth, and with her blood being so weak there's no visual indicator.

I have to check my notes but it mentions that Karen's magic smells like Quince and Cottonwood. The only other Quince that I have in my chart is King Gilad (Quince and Juniper). Didn't May mention that there was something funny about the Brown's neighbors in one of the earlier books? Something about their dogs.

You are correct [Once Broken Faith, Kindle Edition, page 17]: "...and of the cottonwood and quince signature of her magic."

Order may be significant here, however -- "cottonwood and quince" might not be the same as "quince and cottonwood", and the only times that lineage has been established is in the context of the /first/ scent being the same (I think -- you likely have better data on this than I do -- a chart showing all the scents revealed in all the books!?).

Beyond that, I rather doubt that King Gilad and Karen are related -- I'm fairly certain that King Gilad is a pure-blood Daoine Sidhe, and I know that neither of Karen's (supposed) parents have any Daoine Sidhe blood at all. It is reasonable for Toby to miss the fact that Karen is a Roane (since she has never smelled the magic of one -- which, in and of itself, is somewhat odd: the Roane in One Salt Sea /does/ See right in front of her, but no mention is made of the scent of her magic) but it seems very unlikely that she would miss Daoine Sidhe blood.

But... Who knows? :)

King Gilad was Tuatha de Dannan, same as Arden.

I like the thought of the Browns being somehow descendant of the Roan.

Most Fae and changelings that we encounter get identified by their physical features. Pointed ears, but not pointed like a Tuatha De Danan. Or the inhumanly blue eyes of the Twylith Teg.

Even Toby, who is more sensitive to magical signatures than most, had to be told that magic was indicative of your Firstborn. Toby grew up around several Fae of the same race and lineage, and never found a common denominator. In Ashes of Honor, when we first hear about this, the magic only tells which of the twins was that individual's First by a damp smell or a burnt smell, it had nothing to do with which scent was damp/burning.

For this reason, I'm butting more stock in physical appearance than magical signatures, at least until we have more information.

Toby had to be told about magical signatures because her mother had left some vital training off for her. The Luidaeg says that it was once normal for everyone to know about it.

When I sort my chart based upon magical signature (yeah, I know , I'm a really big nerd who has it on a spreadsheet), I come up with something else interesting - Heather and Fire. Heather as in Amorica and Elton's magic (Tuatha de Dannon) and Quentin. Then fire - as in Amorica and then smoke with Chelsea, Etienne, and Simon. Even Quentin's other signature is steel - a fired forged metal. I wonder if Amorica was the father of the Daoine Sidhe? They have to have one, even if they were claimed by Eira. Maybe that fire accounts for the red hair that some of the Daoine Sidhe seem to have.

I don't know if Simon is a great example - his magic had changed. Was the smoke constant (oh spreadsheet bearer?) and just the cider -> rotten oranges the change?

I have Simons listed as both. If you read the Winter Long it talks about how his magic smelled before (Smoke and Mulled Cider) and after (Candle Smoke and Rotten Oranges). I believe that he corrupted himself by having some sort of contact with Blind Michael (both Michael and Rayseline have candle in their magic signature) while looking for August.

Sorry for the delayed response. He went from smoke and mulled cider to candle smoke and rotten oranges.