A RED-ROSE CHAIN open thread!

That's what I was suggesting, that if Marcia is Firstborn it seems unlikely she could hide that from Evening.

Yes, but:
1) Evening disdains changelings, and thus, presumably tends to underestimate them. She certainly underestimates Toby. I think it's not only possible that she wouldn't even take notice of Marcia, supposedly a weak-blooded changeling…I think it's more likely than not.
2) Amandine is *very* good with illusions. This is reiterated over and over. Which is interesting, because in other parts, illusions are indicated as being tied to Titania's bloodlines, but Amandine isn't related to Titania. If I were looking for someone able to cast an illusion that could fool one of Titania's Firstborn, I'd go with Amandine.

Okay, first let me get this out there. After reading Never Shines The Sun, I do not like Amandine. She was willing to steal centuries from Toby, to turn her completely human and leave her totally defenseless, just because she can't handle whatever it is Oberon has planned for her line. At this point, I can't imagine anything that would ever make me like her now.

That said, I don't, not for one second, believe Marcia could be Amandine. If she was, then that means she stood there, just stood there, and did nothing while her daughter was bleeding out, with an iron bullet lodged in her. If Amandine was capable of doing that, then she never would have saved Toby when she was elf-shot, she would have just let her die. Instead she changed her blood, and basically undid everything she had already done to her. She may be delusional, selfish and a bit cold, but that says, to me at least, that she isn't completely heartless.

I'm prepared to allow for a wide variety of possibilities when it comes to Marcia, but her being Amandine is not one of them.

Eh, I think there's one key distinction between those two scenarios. When Toby was shot, Amandine wouldn't have been the only individual who could save her. When Toby was elf-shot the first time, given that Walther hadn't yet come up with his antidote, Amandine was, in fact, the only individual who could possibly save her. With the iron bullet, all Amandine would have had to do would have been to call Lily…and, in fact, SOMEONE got word to Lily before it was too late. With the elf-shot, Amandine had to show up, start Toby bleeding and shift her blood out in the open.

I am not 100% wedded to the idea that Marcia is Amandine. There are many options as to Marcia's real identity (including being Evening's supposedly dead younger sister, Dawn). But if Amandine is hiding as Marcia, she presumably is playing a very long game, and one that does not entirely focus on Toby, assuming that she hasn't gotten hard proof of August's death et al. She would be reluctant to risk blowing her cover unless she really had to. Golden Gate Park, open to the world, with injury-resistant Toby slowly bleeding out from an iron bullet? Send a request for help to Lily ASAP and stand by in case specific blood-working skills are needed -- if not, keep fooling everyone (except for Lily). Shadowed Hills, with a limited number of people around, with Toby on the verge of death and no one else equipped to save her? Throw off disguise and fire up the blood. I don't see those two approaches as being incompatible, especially given that we presumably don't know EVERY detail of Amandine's past and Toby's role in the world.

Ah, not so fast there. Nobody called Lilly, Toby staggered all the way to the moon bridge and collapsed at the water's edge. It was her blood in the water that called Lily, and gave her permission to keep Toby alive, until she could grant her permission to heal her. Marcia's reaction at the gate gave no indication that she saw a woman soaked in blood standing before her, so she either:

1) Didn't see a blood-soaked woman, only the illusion Toby had about her, or

2) Saw through the illusion, and let this critically injured person just walk away. Toby said she almost fell half a dozen times before she got out of sight of the gate, so if Marcia had seen through the illusion there could have been no doubt that Toby was near death.

I simply cannot, will not. believe that any mother even marginally worthy of the title -- even Amandine -- could have stood that. She could easily have reacted, and Toby would have just assumed her illusion had crumbled, which it had by the time she reached the moon bridge.

Nope, I don't buy it. Unless Amandine has prescience, or the ability to sense impending death, there's no way she could have known Toby wouldn't drop dead before help got to her and, if Marcia is Amandine, she was right there.

It was her blood in the water that called Lily, and gave her permission to keep Toby alive, until she could grant her permission to heal her.
That was what Lily told Toby, when Toby asked how Lily had found her. That doesn't mean Lily was telling the truth, or the whole truth.

Unless Amandine has prescience, or the ability to sense impending death
Yes, if only she had the ability to find out all sorts of vital things from blood, such as the blood Toby was releasing… :)

Watch Marcia turn out to be someone, or something, that none of us have guessed!