A RED-ROSE CHAIN open thread!

Lots of fun stuff here. (I loved this book!) No sane monarch outside the Mists is ever going to let Toby through their gates ever, ever again. And if Arden's neighbors start misbehaving, now all she has to do is threaten to send Toby to do diplomacy at them.

Unless someone steals his body, Arden's brother Prince Nolan should definitely be awake in the next book. I could see everyone deciding to let Rayseline sleep on, but Simon stands a good shot of being awoken. The Simon/Toby relationship was my favorite part of The Winter Long, so I'm really hoping he wakes up soon.

I was surprised that Eira's magic didn't smell like a literal winter rose.

I was also surprised at how sane Ceres seemed. I'd been assuming that Luna's craziness came in large part from being a mixture of Maeve and Titania, especially since Rayseline's Blodynbryd-self (during her Choice) seemed like such a psycho.

One thing confused me: in The Winter Long, the Luidaeg tells Toby, "My father denied [Eira]. And her mother bound me. I was forbidden to spread lies—literally forbidden." But here, Toby says the Luidaeg's "tone of voice was one of the few deceptions she had left, thanks to her big sister geasing her to always tell the truth." Slip up, is Toby misremembering, or does the first part somehow not mean "Titania bound me and forbade me to spread lies"?

In regards to Nolan: Nolan is, I believe, the elder of the two, Arden really doesn't want the throne, and Nolan does (that's why he got elf shot in the first place, remember). Is Arden going to (try) to give up the throne to him?

Arden is actually the oldest, I believe. I couldn't find a specific reference to ages in my quick scan back through Chimes At Midnight, but my impression was always that she was the heir apparent. When speaking of her brother's desire to take back the throne during the War of Silences she said:

"I convinced him to wait a little longer, and see if she'd get better. Maybe she'd turn into the kind of Queen our father wanted me to be, and then it wouldn't matter that the throne wasn't mine."

That certainly sounds like she expected to one day take the throne. though that may not matter. In Rosemary And Rue it was stated that inheritance in Faerie wasn't linear, and that Raysel stood to inherit Shadowed Hills because Sylvester and Luna didn't have any better options. Since Gilad didn't name an heir, it's possible that Nolan could challenge Arden's right to the throne, though that's unlikely to get him anywhere since she's already been confirmed by the High King.

Of course, this is Faerie we're talking about, and if Arden were removed from the picture, there would be no one between him and the throne. Now would Nolan be so low as to resort to such means? Well, we really don't know anything about him...,

Just checked (finally, an opportunity to actually /use/ Kindle X-Ray) -- Arden was indeed the crown princess. I can still easily see her trying to turn the crown over to him, though. :)

I can see her wanting that as well, though I can't see Toby letting that happen without speaking her mind first, and we all know that speaking her mind has never been difficult for Toby. I really feel a great deal of sympathy for Arden. From her perspective being Gilad's daughter has brought nothing but misery, and she developed, for good reason, a profound instinct for flight over fight. At the same time I feel she has the makings of a great queen within her -- reluctant rulers are quite often the best.

Regarding Luidaeg and lying - she cannot lie, her words must be true. That doesn't mean she can't use her tone of voice or body language to misdirect; I can say "this tastes like almonds", and based on my tone of voice and body language you can assume whether I think that's a good thing, a weird thing, a bad thing, or something so awful you've insulted my ancestors and I'm now going to kill you. As long as it did taste like almonds to me, I haven't violated the rules of the binding - and yet I can still deceive you, by making you think I hate almonds when I don't.
Or, make you think I'm a horrid scary woman who will eat your face for calling me :)

Yes, that was very clear. What confused me was the question of WHO bound the Luidaeg to prevent her from lying. In "A Red Rose Chain", Toby indicates that it was directly done by Eira, but in "The Winter Long", the Luidaeg seemed to really clearly identify Titania as the one who did it.

I read that as though Titania bound her on Eira's wishes. So both are true, but Titania did the actual magicing.

That was my take too. Titania did it, but only because Eira wanted it done.

Oohhhhh... Sorry, i totally misunderstood

No sane monarch outside the Mists is ever going to let Toby through their gates ever, ever again. And if Arden's neighbors start misbehaving, now all she has to do is threaten to send Toby to do diplomacy at them.

Arden: You mean something to people around here
Toby: Yeah, I mean they're about to get in trouble

In regards to no sane momarch letting Toby imto their kingdom, I am pretty sure that Tobes is well on her way to adding "King-Breaker" to her list of actual real titles.