Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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A RED-ROSE CHAIN open thread!

To celebrate the release of A Red-Rose Chain, here. Have an open thread to discuss the book. Judging by the comments I'm seeing, some of you have had time, and I'd really, really rather book discussion (sometimes including spoilers) didn't crop up on other posts.

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Seriously. If anyone comments here at all, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS. So please don't read and then yell at me because you encountered spoilers. You were warned. (I will not reply to every comment; I call partial comment amnesty. But I may well join some of the discussion, or answer questions or whatnot.) I will be DELETING all comments containing spoilers which have been left on other posts. No one gets to spoil people here without a label.

You can also start a discussion at my website forums, with less need to be concerned that I will see everything you say! In case you wanted, you know, discussion free of authorial influence, since I always wind up getting involved in these things.

Have fun, and try not to bleed on the carpet.
Tags: a red-rose chain, discussion post, toby daye
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Leftover pot-roast sandwich with mashed potatoes and cranberry sauce. Is that all in the sandwich or are the mashed potatoes and cranberry sauce on the side. Both are delicious, but they are different experiences. My preference would be two slices of pumpernickel, heated pot-roast and mashed potatoes, and chilled cranberry sauce combined as a single sandwich.
So um I might have accidentally a done.

Thank you
And thank you *so* much for how you handled Walther. Not that I'd expect differently from you. But it was awesome.

jenfullmoon

1 year ago

wendyzski

1 year ago

argonel

1 year ago

Could be worse

capplor

1 year ago

LOL. I just discovered that I only THOUGHT I'd preordered the actual book. I did preorder the audio version, but that doesn't do me any good today. Two more days to wait for me whilst avoiding certain forums and friends. I COULD go to a brick and mortar store or spring for next day...but I'm a lazy skinflint.
Closes eyes quickly.
Awesome! I finished my reread of the series on Saturday, and I was wondering where the false Queen had gotten off to. Makes much more sense now.

Also, wakey-wakey Rayseline? That should be very interesting to see (I hope we get to see?).

Now back to work. *sigh* How long until the next one?
...though the problem with technology is that it doesn't tend to stay under wraps particularly well.* Which, admittedly, isn't much of a surprise, because it seems unlikely that Eira would stay off the board forever, especially now that Toby is taking up a more active role in the handling of changelings.

* I realize that there's a long literary history of a singular spell being in a particular book, though, and arguably I don't know what rules we're playing under...

morvoren

1 year ago

museclio

1 year ago

jenfullmoon

1 year ago

deborah_c

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

vixyish

1 year ago

tylik

1 year ago

hasufin

1 year ago

joyce

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

tylik

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

jenfullmoon

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

jenfullmoon

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

rymenhild

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

ancelinegrey

1 year ago

Oh bother, my computer did something funky and I lost the comment I was working on, so here I go again.

Amazing, inspiring, gripping, outstanding; I could go through the whole dictionary for superlatives and never come up with one that does justice to this book. How do you do it, Seanan? Every book is better than the one that came before, and since I consider Rosemary and Rue to be one of the best books I have ever read, that's a tremendous feat. One might even call it heroic! :)

The way you built the tension and suspense was masterful; I mean we all know Toby will come through in the end, but her friends? They are her strength and her weakness; you can cut, stab, beat and bloody Toby to no end, but the only way you can really, truly hurt her is to hurt those she loves. It's the risk of letting yourself care and, I suppose, the price of being a hero. This book makes that the appropriateness of that title once more abundantly clear, because only a hero could do what she did in the end.

I'm trying to avoid outright spoilers, but with this next part I can't, so stop reading if you don't want to know.

You told me I would like this one, and you were right. Walther's revelation isn't the sole reason for that, in fact it's actually a very minuscule part of why I loved this book. It wasn't even part of the story, just an aside really, but that's why I love the way you handled it. Without that bit the story would have been unchanged, but with it the world of Faerie gains even more depth. And the way Toby handled it -- the way any being with a functioning brain should handle it -- just makes her all the more a hero in my heart. I've said it before, but I can never say it enough; on behalf of all of us in the transgender community, thank you.

I did have one moment of stark, raving horror at the end, when Toby asked Queen Granola (Fruits, flakes and nuts -- get it?) what her name was. A thought popped into my head when she refused to answer, but then I told myself it couldn't be. I mean if she was August, she would have had Dochas Sidhe blood, and Toby would have known that, right?

Anyway, I'm going to end this before I start babbling incoherent praise. I loved it, and I can't wait for the next book. At least I still have Indexing:Reflections to keep me going, and the Incyrptid books, which I have yet to start. I'm very much looking forward to Every Heart a Doorway as well, and getting into your sci fi stuff. I'm not in your league, but my dabbling in writing has taught me some of what an author goes through, I think. It can be hard, when you put your work out there for the world. It's like presenting your child, and the world can be cruel to children. If I can only convey one thing, let it be this; you have touched one heart, and filled it with joy, wonder and hope. My world is a better place because of the worlds you have shown me, and I know I am not alone in feeling this way.

Hugs,
Breanna Ramsey

"I mean we all know Toby will come through"

Oh my God, please do not give Seanan any ideas.

dragonsong

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

dragonsong

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

dragonsong

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

wendyzski

1 year ago

lazzchan

1 year ago

professor

1 year ago

beccastareyes

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

seanan_mcguire

1 year ago

Wow... so as soon as I got home from work, I opened up my happy little copy of the book, read the back cover and cringed. XD Cause nothing that starts that positive can go well. I was so pleased to find out all the twists and turns made this prediction correct.

There are a LOT of spoiler comments in this comment, as I'm basically just keyboard smashing my reactions and love for this book.




So, wow-- - my roommates heard my scream several times and me sort of staring at the book, hugging it a bit and then going back to reading more. Walther's reveal was so beautifully, wonderfully done that I about wept. (And you're a sneaky woman, answering questions that worked so well into A Red-Rose Chain). Oh, man-- the loyalty of dogs came back to bite them and this broke my heart with Madden. Go Walther for figuring out how to fix Eira's elfshot! :D (Although this brings out so many possibilities for some people to awaken now and not all of them are /good/ people to wake up or without consequences.)

I'm glad Quentin's parents have such faith in him and slightly disturbed they have such faith in Toby, who can literally be stabbed in the heart and still keep on kicking. She kept on shifting her blood, hm? How much more did she shift it towards fae?

The bit with Quentin and the picture on his phone? I love how you didn't make a big deal out of this or Walther (although I may be reading too much into Quentin) and it was just so beautifully casual that it was wonderful. Thank you for this.

I loved seeing more of what the twlwth teg can do; you build on your world and your characters and the thoughts and research that goes into them blows my mind. They call Toby's scenting magic wind-reading! I am SO very curious now about this and what else goes into this and who else can do it and what else one can do with it.

The Luidaeg's reaction to Toby's "oh, btw, I I have to be a diplomat" was priceless, her asking her about Eira was slightly more painful and I wonder at what other (again) fallout is going to be from Walther's experiments.

There was a lot of screaming and flailing, a lot of heartbreak over Toby's continuing loss of humanity, her reactions, her changes.

There was a great deal of smiles over Ceres. Holy mother, I really like this one; she's so interesting and her blase reaction of "oh, yes. you're the one that killed my father" and instead of a 'prepare to die' it was "let me thank you" and that's a whole nother world. So in a weird sort of way, Ceres is related to Toby as well? ... sometimes, keeping up with familial lines in Faerie is a headache and a half.

I just... so much here that gives me joy, the Court of Whispering Cats gives me great joy-- so much fun seeing other kingdoms (even if Rhys was a bastard) and Joe was such a cat that I was rolling around in joy. Tybalt's reaction to buses and public transportation had me imagining my cats and looks of narrow-eyed suspicion over something new. "The bus knows" indeed. I will totally have a giggling view of things as I ride the bus tomorrow.


What this keyboard smash all boils down to (and I'm sorry for the long-trailing comments here) is thank you, Thank you so much for everything in this book, for sharing your world with us again and letting us read your amazing thoughts and words.
Excellent and happy and full of yay! (also, my husband is like 20 pages from the end and just muttered "BAD DOG" to himself.)

And now I have to go back through the other books and count the different types of magic: flower magic, water magic, blood magic...what have I missed?

I think three is all there are - one each for Oberon, Titania, and Maeve? And they get combined and expressed in various ways.

gwaihiril

1 year ago

seanan_mcguire

1 year ago

First of all, I want to begin by saying that I walked 25 minutes to the nearest Barnes and Noble in the summer heat (because I couldn't justify paying nearly as much in transit fares as the book itself was going to cost me) - and I'm glad I did.

I may have more to say later, but at the moment, I just want you to know that when Walther came out, I literally gasped, then laughed, then blinked back tears - and got some strange looks from the people nearby. And if that's how I, a cisgendered person, reacted to it, well... wow. Thanks for making sure more people can see themselves in your characters (and especially a character as awesome as Walther.)

Also, the fact that you wrote in the acknowledgements that this book was full of surprises for you, left me wondering whether Walther was out to you before this story. (Not that it matters either way. But it's fun to wonder what goes on in authors' heads.)
He was! But there were some things that made me go "well, okay then..."
Well worth the wait! The amount of work put in by the author is much appreciated. :)

So, I downloaded the book at about 30 seconds after midnight, settled in for some late-night reading…and, eventually, had to put the book away temporarily and go to sleep because it was getting TOO CREEPY TO READ in my dark, silent house with everyone else asleep. I was able to pick it up again in the morning light.

This is not a criticism, by the way! This is me being a wimp. :) It takes some skilled writing to pull off a horror story with no visuals as you ratchet the tension up slowly but surely. Now that I have read the book once and know the ending, I'll be less of a coward in the future. But wow…though I know this was unintentional, the book serves as a lovely indirect tribute to Wes Craven (with a dash of that Buffy episode in the alternate universe in which the Master was draining humans of blood with surgical efficiency…). Good thing Toby is equipped to do more than just scream.

In non-terrifying news….Toby doesn't drink coffee any more?!? YOW, talk about a buried twist (at least from my perspective). Okay, I went back and checked, and Toby DOES say in A Winter Long that she wasn't drinking coffee much any more, but somehow I missed that before. Fear of caffeine addiction following the goblin fruit experience, or just lack of need to stay up during the day as of late? I'm enjoying the process of speculation.

Ceres is a delight -- nice to meet another Blodynbryd. And the twist with Walther was beautifully handled -- especially given that, while we all love Quentin, Toby really didn't need ANOTHER secret heir to the throne among her retinue. I really liked the fact that Walther was key to their success not because of who he was related to, but because of what he could conjure up with his mind and abilities.

Is this the first book in which Sylvester doesn't appear in person? I think so.

So, let's see. There were two months in between books 6 and 7, four between 7 and 8 and three between 8 and 9. Going at that average rate, book 10 should just hit the time at which Chelsea and Etienne get their powers back. In addition, the issue of the Selkies and the Luidaeg's wishes for Toby's involvement has hit midnight timewise, even if the Luidaeg hasn't specified her wishes (yet). On top of that, it is now possible to wake up Nolan (who should be delighted at what has transpired), Simon and Rayseline. Once Broken Faith is going to be a humdinger.
I seem to recall that the goblin fruit completely overrode Toby's caffeine addiction, so when she recovered from that she didn't need to drink coffee any more, physiologically or psychologically. There's no point in deliberately reacquiring a drug addiction when she could avoid it.

I am super concerned about Rayseline, and to a lesser degree Simon. We shall see!

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

marabett

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

Except

capplor

1 year ago

RE: Except

the_darkstar

1 year ago

RE: Except

capplor

1 year ago

wendyzski

1 year ago

jenfullmoon

1 year ago

professor

1 year ago

Lots of fun stuff here. (I loved this book!) No sane monarch outside the Mists is ever going to let Toby through their gates ever, ever again. And if Arden's neighbors start misbehaving, now all she has to do is threaten to send Toby to do diplomacy at them.

Unless someone steals his body, Arden's brother Prince Nolan should definitely be awake in the next book. I could see everyone deciding to let Rayseline sleep on, but Simon stands a good shot of being awoken. The Simon/Toby relationship was my favorite part of The Winter Long, so I'm really hoping he wakes up soon.

I was surprised that Eira's magic didn't smell like a literal winter rose.

I was also surprised at how sane Ceres seemed. I'd been assuming that Luna's craziness came in large part from being a mixture of Maeve and Titania, especially since Rayseline's Blodynbryd-self (during her Choice) seemed like such a psycho.

One thing confused me: in The Winter Long, the Luidaeg tells Toby, "My father denied [Eira]. And her mother bound me. I was forbidden to spread lies—literally forbidden." But here, Toby says the Luidaeg's "tone of voice was one of the few deceptions she had left, thanks to her big sister geasing her to always tell the truth." Slip up, is Toby misremembering, or does the first part somehow not mean "Titania bound me and forbade me to spread lies"?
In regards to Nolan: Nolan is, I believe, the elder of the two, Arden really doesn't want the throne, and Nolan does (that's why he got elf shot in the first place, remember). Is Arden going to (try) to give up the throne to him?

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

M Reed

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

lysystratae

1 year ago

scamander360

1 year ago

alexcansmile

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

lysystratae

1 year ago

I just finished it, and I spent the last fifty pages having to stop and breathe, unable to decide if I was going to throw up or tear my face off with my fingernails. The tension was really getting to me. Much blood. So roses. Ack.

The threat of using Toby's blood for stuff was pure genius. And I loved getting to see some of her coterie get their own moments-- Toby's our POV and unique and a bamf in her own right, and a lot of things she has to solve (mostly) herself, but I liked getting to se everyone else's contributions as well. And I felt the book did an excellent job of showing off all the growing everyone's done.

Other than my near-hysteria during the last act, it was a really, really fun read. And now I have to wait a year until the next one. *cries all the tears*
I have to admit, early in the book, i internally groaned about elfshot *again*. Now that I'm done, I see that you were just setting up more interesting things. Quentin caused a lot of laughing out loud, and dialog sharing a with a friend who was also reading, albeit at a much slower pace than mine. I also really appreciated how you handled the *several* layers of reveal with Walther, and that it was done so much just in passing. Now just another long wait until next year for the next one. Ah well, I shall have to content myself with your other writings.
I also really appreciated how you handled the *several* layers of reveal with Walther, and that it was done so much just in passing.

You probably didn't do it on purpose, but I really appreciate your pun there with the word "passing".

seanan_mcguire

1 year ago

Crappy day was made INFINITELY better by settling in last night with Toby and a bottle of Reisling. I LOVED IT.

I just want to give Walther a giant hug - he's always been one of my favorites, but after this book and seeing how much he's worked to really own his life and excel at his calling? Walther is BEST.
Up until 2am reading it. Not sorry.
So, I just noticed Toby's initials for the first time. I wonder if it's deliberate that they spell OCD.
OMG! I never tweaked on that! I'm not sure I would call Toby obsessive-compulsive though. Mulishly stubborn, yes, and she certainly has a tendency towards impulsiveness, One might even call her reckless. Not me, though, I would never say any of that about her ... certainly not within earshot!

_dante_sparda_

1 year ago

seanan_mcguire

1 year ago

I read the whole story (ebook) this morning. I loved, loved, loved it. This is definitely one of my favorite Toby books yet.

Deleted comment

Don't we all.

I started thinking in this one that if I ever cosplayed from this book, I'd be May. I don't have short hair but otherwise I think we have a similar dress aesthetic :P

If I wasn't occupied figuring out how to knit my Halloween costume (yeah, I'm weird), I might ponder how one knits/crochets a rose goblin. Probably crochet would be easier on that score though.

evaleastaristev

1 year ago

ancelinegrey

1 year ago

Love the book, love the whole series of course, and yes, Walther is the one that rings most for me, as I have, at last count, five transgender friends. All independent of each other, I might add. and now I have to beat them over the head with nine books to read so that they can get to this oh so perfect reveal. Okay maybe this one will read okay on it's own, but it'll mean so much more once they understand the world, right?

Besides, more money for Seanan means more books for us.
oh.. and THANK YOU FOR FINALLY LETTING MAY OUT OF THE HOUSE! *cough* ahem...

dragonsong

1 year ago

jenfullmoon

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

Oh my God oh my God oh my God you are wicked. I loved it. But the boys had to be put to bed in the middle of chapter 20 and then Ian resisted falling asleep and I was there for an hour getting him to sleep and stuck in the middle of chapter 20....

Awesome, awesome book. Loved the reveal on Walther (not just the fact, but how it was handled all around - Toby is awesome). Rhys is a nasty bastard, and I hope they keep him down for the full hundred years.

Oh God Raysel and even worse Eira. I don't want to know what happens if they get woken up. (Okay, part of me is curious, but most of me hopes for Toby's sake I don't learn, especially about Eira.)

And...wow. Everyone Toby brought with her made it. Wow. Wow. (I about fell over when Tia was revealed, though. Glad Toby did not give in and bring her - yikes!)
I was starting to wonder about Tia right before the reveal....

Poor Madden, his sister is a bad dog!

Amelia Edwards

1 year ago

Ahhhhhhhh! I actually guessed right about Walther! That never happens, lol.
Read it all yesterday (got a bit grumpy about a work friend wanting to have lunch even because I wanted to READ!)

Loved it. I did wonder if that was typical of that kind of diplomatic mission, it seemed like Rhys pretty much broke the spirit of immunity several times and that it wouldn't have at all been unreasonable to call him out on it. Though I guess that would just mean starting the war that Toby was there to avoid.

If I was the high king I might be getting a little worried about Toby rearranging the west coast of America to her liking in the last few years *grin* I mean, obviously it needed to be done but it's turning Mists into a sort of fulcrum of power since so many groups are going to owe Toby/Arden for putting them in power.

I also wonder how much of a wave it's going to cause to deal with the changelings, if many of them choose to go all the way fae to break their addictions that's dumping a number of brand new purebloods into the world...I can't imagine it wouldn't have repercussions

It sounds like the cure for elfshot is fairly difficult to make so it may not make as huge an impact outside of the Mists as it seems. Although I suppose we don't know how many truly accomplished alchemists are out there. And whether Walther will even widely share the formula.
I'm personally, selfishly, hoping that Walther keeps the cure for elfshot his own personal secret recipe and doesn't share it widely. If he keeps it secret, he sets himself up as the sole supplier of it and that can mean a lot of power for himself.

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

M Reed

1 year ago

alexcansmile

1 year ago

M Reed

1 year ago

alexcansmile

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

alexcansmile

1 year ago

M Reed

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

M Reed

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

jenfullmoon

1 year ago

M Reed

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

ancelinegrey

1 year ago

bree_ramsey314

1 year ago

Oh my. That was wonderful. I think it's your best Toby tale yet.

Toby and Tybalt... I just want to draw little hearts around the two of them, and May and Jazz while I'm at it. I loved Walther, and the revelations about his past. Quentin and Dean, huh? That's an interesting new development. Quentin certainly has grown since he's been hanging around Toby and the Luidaeg.

Thank you for another look into one of your many worlds.
Heheheheh, Quentin and Dean, that came outta nowhere. We don't see them hanging out much, do we?
Wow, what a book! I don't know where to start, but I loved seeing more of the world that Seanan has built so lovingly over the course of nine books. Walther was amazing! Honestly everyone was amazing! I loved meeting another Blodynbryd. I love that we now have a cure for elf-shot, and I can't wait to see what the implications are of this further down the line.

Although it sounds like Seanan's going to have to introduce some new villains, since most of the ones she introduced first have been taken care of in some way. Eira will be back I'm sure, but most of her minions have been dealt with. Eira might wake them up, but she seems like the type to easily discard tools that have failed her.

Questions I'm hoping will be answered in the next books, aside from the big ones (August, the Selkies): Will we get confirmation of who killed Gilad and his lover? Toby seemed to think it was Oleander, but Oleander was known for poison, not throat-slitting. I supposed it could have been the false Queen or Rhys, but it would be nice to know for sure.

What's up with Marcia? She was acting extremely squirrelly in Chimes at Midnight, and then in The Winter Long, Eira's spell on the inhabitants of Goldengreen didn't knock her over like everyone else, even though Marcia is (supposedly) a quarterblood changeling.

I was wondering that too! There's part of my brain that thinks that it's something to do with Amandine, but that seems too...tidy? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

marabett

1 year ago

morvoren

1 year ago

professor

1 year ago

aryn_wilson

1 year ago

Great minds

kveberle

1 year ago

RE: Great minds

professor

1 year ago

RE: Great minds

lazzchan

1 year ago

RE: Great minds

fordprfct

1 year ago

RE: Great minds

fordprfct

1 year ago

RE: Great minds

marabett

1 year ago

RE: Great minds

marabett

1 year ago

RE: Great minds

marabett

1 year ago

RE: Great minds

kveberle

1 year ago

What a great book! Thanks!

"as for my name, you can’t have it, because I don’t own it anymore. I sold it years ago, in exchange for everything I’d ever wanted,"
[McGuire, Seanan (2015-09-01). A Red-Rose Chain: An October Daye Novel (October Daye Series Book 9) (p. 343). DAW. Kindle Edition. ... pretty neat that Kindle puts in the page number when you copy and paste]

... that sounds like something we'll learn more about later. Did someone buy her name because they didn't want her to have it, or did someone buy it because they wanted it for themselves? I have no idea how one could buy a name, but I'm betting on the second choice. Given her heritage, I won't be surprised if we find out sooner rather than later, assuming the next book will shift the focus towards the sea.

On an unrelated note, I was a bit surprised that October wasn't more worried about running around in transformed clothes, after she got tracked by the shoelaces in Chimes at Midnight.
I think it's a no-brainer that we haven't seen the last of the False Queen yet. Her name is important, so much so, I think, that if Toby knew it, too many puzzle pieces would fall into place.

Here's something to ponder: the High King confirmed her as queen, so one would think he knew her name, right? I mean, I would think he would want something more than, "I'm Gilad's daughter" before giving her the crown. But then, Eira supported her claim, and he is Daoine Sidhe...

poincaraux

1 year ago

Amelia Edwards

1 year ago

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