Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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Questions and answers, #9: More about babies.

As stated in this post, I am answering ten questions about Toby's world in preparation for the release of A Red-Rose Chain. Please note that these are questions about the world, not questions about individual people, things which have not yet happened in the series, or what is coming up in the books. I am no longer taking questions in the comments on the original post; with just one question left to go, I think we're full up.

Our ninth question comes from marabett, who asked...

"So, this may not be enough of a question to justify a post, but...We've seen a lot of discussion about how low fertility is for non-Firstborn fae, to the point where they'll even take human lovers just to obtain a baby who may later present significant issues of his/her own (the Choice, mortality, etc. etc.). Does this really take precedent over everything else? By which I mean, if you're a Daoine Sidhe having a fling with a rascally Cait Sidhe that you'd rather not have your spouse know about, would you, erm, take steps to ensure that you wouldn't give birth to a baby with a tail? Are there magical ways to block fertility -- after all, there don't seem to be any magical ways to *increase* fertility, or I assume the fae would make use of them...? Or is it as simple as a fae thinking in passing, "A child would be inconvenient," and voila, no offspring? Or...would the spouse in question be delighted at the birth of a child even if he weren't the progenitor, because hey, fae baby!

Are there rules and traditions around the conception of full-fae children totally out of marriage? If two single fae types who are dallying together for fun conceive, do they just start talking marriage without another thought, because it's just a given that proven fertility together is as good a basis for marriage as any other? Or is that so rare that it's just handled on a case-by-case basis? I noticed that we had gotten a lot of interesting information on how full-fae children are viewed in the context of a marriage, and how changelings are viewed, but not a lot of discussion about what would happen if, say, Helen and Raj found out that they were expecting.

Again, sorry if this is too picayune -- as a subfertile member of a species in which fertility is assumed as the default, I end up wondering about a lot of esoteric elements of fertility stuff even in fictional races.

Also, one more question, since we're on the topic of fae fertility...For a fae couple, is there something about managing to conceive one child that triggers increased fertility for a period afterwards? I ask because I've noticed several examples of fae couples who have no children for quite some time, but then have two or more in (relatively) rapid succession. Apologies if this is veering into spoiler territory."

Um, wow. Okay, points for a really detailed question. Also, wow are y'all collectively fascinated by babies. Is this a hint?

Anyway, we're going to break this down. First part:

"Is having a baby, period, more important than what that baby is? Is there birth control?"

Every fae marriage has its own rules. Some include fidelity; others do not. How likely they are to include fidelity is somewhat determined by the rank of the people involved. Two married Daoine Sidhe, for example, hoping for a Daoine Sidhe heir, are likely to practice very strict fidelity until they actually get a kid, because they don't want there to be any question of whether someone else can make a claim to their lands or titles. (Ex: Duchess has an affair, has a child with her seneschal. Child is made heir. Child dies in the absence of any other heir. Seneschal can now claim that their other child, as the sibling of the heir, has a legit claim to the title. Depending on how the local monarch rules, this might actually work. This is the problem with a system of governance wherein the person who wears the crown just does what they want.) Also remember that fae divorce requires the consent of any children; adding a third parent who is not part of the marriage vows only complicates things. Since many fae marry solely for procreation, this doesn't come up very often.

There is birth control, for those times when you really don't want to risk pregnancy. It's usually used right before and during long diplomatic missions. These are thankfully uncommon. (Some fae will also use birth control when they have plans for the next nine months/year that they'd really rather not change, viewing it as not tempting fate.)

Second part:

"What happens with full-fae children totally out of marriage?"

Instant divorce!

No, seriously.

Helen is not a pureblood, so I'm going to shift your example to Raj and Chelsea, as they're purebloods of approximately the same age. (Not that they're sleeping together, as Etienne would straight-up murder anyone getting his sixteen-year-old daughter pregnant, Oberon's Law be damned.) If the two of them had a baby, they would not be considered married, but would be considered divorced. This is the one time that the child does not get to choose which side of the family it will belong to. Raj and Chelsea would both be expected to make the case to their respective lieges for why they should (or shouldn't) have custody, and at the end, the baby would belong to one family or the other. There is no child support. There is no taking it back.

Third part:

"Is there a fertility boost following the birth of a child?"

Yes! No one is quite sure why, but having one baby seems to make it easier/more likely that you will have another, leading to clusters of two to four children born within a decade of each other. Most fae think this is very unfair. They are not wrong.
Tags: a few facts, a red-rose chain, toby daye
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  • 19 comments
I was just thinking this is a lot of baby questions. There's probably good money to be had in writing The Sex Lives of the Rich and Fae (Mouse), but I don't envy the writer assigned the task ("you do what with the what now? Okay, we're done here!" *flee*).

I wish I could think up a really interesting question to ask, but I'm stuck in a weird spot where I know just enough fae-based mythology and folklore that I can make reasonable assumptions, but not enough to ask anything terribly specific that noticeably differs from those assumptions.
I'm not taking any more questions, so you're in the clear!
This has got my wheels turning so I have to get this question out, because the squeaking in my head is driving me nuts.

It's the last bit, the fertility boost, that prompts this burst of mental gear grinding. Is it a couple thing, meaning are they more likely to have more kids as a pair, but individually, with other fae, the odds are normal? Or are they each more fertile individually, regardless of who they're, ah, hooking up with?

And while I'm dancing on the coals, might as well throw this one out there, what about the fertility cycle of a female fae? Is it like that of a human, ovulation and menstruation roughly once a month, or do they have a longer cycle? This is potentially huge, if they go by a lunar cycle like humans. A human female is born with all the eggs she is ever going to have, about one million at birth, which drops to around 300,000 by the time of puberty. That's no problem for a mortal, who is only going to ovulate 300-400 in her lifetime, but an immortal fae? Now granted, if she ovulates 12 times a year, she still has enough eggs for about 25,000 years, but what if only 10% of those eggs are viable?

Maybe only a small percentage of a fae woman's eggs are receptive to breeding. We all know how it works in humans, right? When the first sperm finds the egg and penetrates it, the outer surface of the egg hardens so no other sperm get through. Maybe with the fae it works different, maybe most of the eggs are always toughened up so sperm can't get in, but when one of the rare, soft eggs gets fertilized it triggers a temporary change in the woman's body chemistry that causes all, or at least more, of the other eggs, um, soften up?

Sorry if I'm rambling. I've just been doing a lot of reading up on female fertility for a project of my own, and I just love brainstorming stuff like this!
The fertility boost is only for that one, specific couple.

The fertility cycle is a whole separate question, and not one that I am presently prepared to answer.
I figured as much on the first part. I mean if it extended outside that couple, I shudder to think of the ways the purebloods would come up with to take advantage of that little loophole! On the rather benign side of the scale would be the contractual arrangements to acquire the .... services ... of such individuals, and on the other? Well, we've seen that some fae certainly aren't above kidnapping and torture, and I could even see it going so far as a modified form of jus prima noctis.

As for the rest, I was just speculating out loud, so to speak. Based on what we've learned of the fae so far, I seriously doubt anyone has ever tried to figure this stuff out. Asking why things work the way they do doesn't seem to be encouraged in their society, but that's okay, because it lets our imaginations run amok!
You've got me totally fascinated by your questions. I do hope the answers come out in the books.

bree_ramsey314

August 27 2015, 07:34:58 UTC 1 year ago Edited:  August 27 2015, 07:35:29 UTC

Well thank you, I do love to fascinate! My questions mostly stem from my own efforts at writing; I try to think of how I might approach a particular issue, and base my questions on what I might ask myself. That is in no way intended to imply I am anywhere close to Seanan's mastery of the craft; I only wish I had her talent!

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Sounds like a deficiency here. A fae pregnancy uses up a resource, and it doesn't get replenished after the first one unless the fae in question takes action to replenish it.

Or, it could be a curse.
It's not a curse.
Thank you so much for answering these questions in general, and my question in particular!

Now all I need is a time machine to take me ahead to the time in which A Red-Rose Chain is in general release...
for the instant divorce thing - presumably, the couple *could* go "hey, we're pregnant, cool, let's get married"? And the instant divorce status is for ones who don't want to? Just looking to clarify.
They could!
Thanks Seanan and the questioners - this is absolutely fascinating. I love that Toby's world is so complete and real to us as readers that these questions arise.
It helps if I work these things out ahead of time.
"Seneschal can now claim that their other child, as the sibling of the heir, has a legit claim to the title. Depending on how the local monarch rules, this might actually work."

I'm imagining somebody being told, "You're the heir now, because I said so." Never mind that the claim is based on a century-younger sibling who died of acute stupidity, this person is now stuck with it. (Chaos ensues.)
Yup, pretty much.