Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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SYMBIONT open thread!

To celebrate the release of Symbiont, here. Have an open thread to discuss the book. Because nothing says "Thanksgiving" like "tapeworms." Judging by the comments I'm seeing, some of you have had time, and I'd really, really rather book discussion (sometimes including spoilers) didn't crop up on other posts.

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Seriously. If anyone comments here at all, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS. So please don't read and then yell at me because you encountered spoilers. You were warned. (I will not reply to every comment; I call partial comment amnesty. But I may well join some of the discussion, or answer questions or whatnot.) I will be DELETING all comments containing spoilers which have been left on other posts. No one gets to spoil people here without a label.

You can also start a discussion at my website forums, with less need to be concerned that I will see everything you say! In case you wanted, you know, discussion free of authorial influence, since I always wind up getting involved in these things.

Have fun, and try not to bleed on the carpet.
Tags: discussion post, mira grant, symbiont
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  • 29 comments
I read half of it on BART headed home, and the rest on the flight to the twin cities yesterday. IT. WAS. FANTASTIC. Also Sherman is one of the creepiest and most compelling antagonists I've come across lately. And Ronnie....I really like him. Pronouns are important. Fishy.....poor Fishy. Just....I mean if that's his coping strategy, yay him, but the guy needs a hug. And puppy kisses.

Also I really really really hope we get Tansy back OK. That last scene with her broke my heart.
I have to admire the kind of guy who says to himself, "These controls should be like this..." and takes a chance. I may not want to ride with him, but I've got to admire that in an emergency.

gfish

2 years ago

I was sad for Fishy, but he also made me laugh. The constant "life is a video game" aspect reminds me of my son who puts much of life in video game terms.

Thank you. Symbiont was wonderful.

But I hate waiting for another year for the rest of it.
"the experiment in psychological conditioning pretending to be therapy"

Whoa. After Parasite I thought the shrink wasn't in on it, that he thought Sal was human and was being reassured that she was confused. Sal definitely has a different opinion. He probably would have had to be incompetent or in on the whole "Sal isn't human but we want her to think she is & not stand out."

Not standing out does serve as a protective cover for Sal.

"Even when they asked me to host the occupied body of what had been my eldest daughter, I agreed"

I'd wondered how Col Mitchell hadn't known about Sal. He had. I wonder if he'd told his wife.
This is cool.

"A genome of a rare species of tapeworm found living inside a patient's brain has been sequenced for the first time. The study provides insights into potential drug targets within the genome for future treatments.

Tapeworms are parasites that are most commonly found living in the gut, causing symptoms such as weakness, weight loss and abdominal pain. However, the larvae of some species of tapeworm are able to travel further afield to areas such as the eyes, the brain and spinal cord."

It was at BioMed Central, but I found it at Science Daily.
That's awesome. In case some are too lazy to google, the article is here, a summary is here, and PICTURES (!!!) are here.
Dr. Banks is even more terrible than I thought, Sherman is absolutely terrifying, and I think I love Ronnie. There's something awesome about him.

Everyone else just needs so many hugs. TANSY ;_;

Basically, two thumbs up, and eagerly awaiting the final book! <3
I have nothing but awesome feelings for Ronnie. All of the feels.
"All of the feels" sums it up nicely.

That last scene in the book, I was like, "It's Ronnie! Yay! Go Ronnie! Hold on, that's probably not good for humans...but YAY RONNIE!"

fullcontactmuse

2 years ago

I hated Dr. Banks SO MUCH. So, so much. He just--fails the "decent part of humanity" test at every available opportunity.
I know, right?! The literal worst.

He's a great example of how an absolute monster of a person can make for an excellent character.

fullcontactmuse

2 years ago

Seanan, I know I said this to you after the latest Vel adventure, but THANK YOU FOR CREATING COMPLEX DISABLED CHARACTERS. Dr. Cale is paraplegic. It's a fact of her life now. It's not overemphasized OR ignored. Accessibility is important, so the hideout (IN A FUCKING CANDY FACTORY) is set up so that she can access things. Sal has PTSD/a phobia of cars and driving. It doesn't magically go away when it's inconvenient. She panics even when she knows it's necessary in order to get away. Tansy is.......well. Tansy I guess would be neurodivergent in a variety of interesting ways. Adam too in some ways. But they're all wonderfully rich characters that aren't reduced to one trait, their disabilities. Thank you. Seriously, thank you. You're one of the only authors I've ever known who gets it right. And the only one who gets it right who writes dystopian/fantasy/etc.

On other notes:

-I nearly shit myself when I realized what Sal was about to do at the end.
-Is Joyce ever going to wake up??? She doesn't have an implant anymore, does she, because of the antiparasitics??? So if she wakes up, what is she going to be like?
-How much of Tansy was taken from her host body? The implication was that she was still herself. Did Dr. Banks only take a little bit and cultivate the rest to form a fully mature tapeworm before inserting it directly into Claudia's (now Anna's) brain?
-What did Ronnie do??? I wasn't quite clear on that. Did he dump antiparisitics into the water supply? Didn't they said that that wouldn't work for some reason?
-Why are the sleepwalkers, y'know, sleepwalkers and Sal and the other chimeras aren't? What's the difference? Is it because Sal and the others were already "vacated" so to speak? But why is Anna not a sleepwalker then?

My prediction for Chimera is that the old Sally will re-emerge somehow in some way and Sal will have to struggle with having two identities in one body.

One last thing. The first time I started Parasite, months ago, I stopped after a few chapters, because it wasn't hooking me. I felt bad because here I was, a huge Seanan/Mira fan and I didn't like Parasite. But since Symbiont was coming out and I had a few friends who LOVED Parasite, I gave it another shot. And after pushing past the somewhat slow (in my opinion) beginning, I was hooked. BOY, was I hooked. I finished Parasite and Symbiont in the span of about four days. It's similar to Newsflesh in a lot of ways, but in a lot of ways it's not. I love it. I can't wait for more.
Oh man, I hope Sally doesn't return (though I really don't think she'll wake up after all these years), it'd be like Caroline in Dollhouse and nobody liked her either! But it would be quite a twist.

Hope Sal can pull off that level of jerkitude in faking.
I thought that Ronnie was adding tapeworm eggs to the water supply, as part of Sherman's plan.

Would that work?
Why are the sleepwalkers, y'know, sleepwalkers and Sal and the other chimeras aren't?

I don't know if it is spelled out or just how I put it together, but I think the sleepwalkers worms have broken their human's brains when they try to move into it. (That was a very weird sentence to write.)

Like Sal mostly integrated with her human's brain, but in the process she did something which produced a similar effect to dyslexia. So the sleepwalkers worms have done something which disconnects or disturbs a bunch of cognitive functions, although they can recognize other sleepwalkers and sometimes chimera through pheromones, and some of them respond to speech if it's combined with the right pheromones... so there is probably a lot more to find out in book three.
I can see why there needs to be a third book

So...

Tansy might be alive or might not.

Anna might gain some of Tansy's identity, going by Ronnie's experience.

Sally might come back and retake control of her body. (Although I suspect this might be a red herring)

Sherman might turn a whole community of tapeworm free people into Chimera. (And since they'd all be clones of Sal, would she be able to take control of them?)

"Fishy dispatched the lock with a single swipe of the crowbar he'd acquired from somewhere." That made me laugh out loud! I was (am) rubbish at Half Life, but smashing things with a crowbar was so theraputic. :)

In case it is needed: Here is a link to the SYMBIONT open thread at the Seanan McGuire forum, in case anyone wants to discuss the book in a forum where Seanan does not read or post.
Finished Symbiont this morning and lovedlovedloved it. Thoroughly enjoyed rereading Parasite in November in preparation.

I love how Sal's growing independence adds complexity to her relationship with Nathan; and how we never lose track of her commitment to animals even though her work at the shelter is gone (for now) - it is still a major reference point for her.

And Dr. Cale. A problem too big to solve in her lifetime, a fully equipped lab and no oversight. God save us all from having what we wish for...
I loved it too, omg! I enjoyed the first book, but found this one completely riveting. I had not been spoiled for the fact that the duology had grown into a trilogy, and as I was approaching the end I kept thinking "how on earth is she going to tie all of this up?!" ...and then I realized the obvious answer: in another book. *grin*

I loved so many things. The fact that using the right pronoun for Ronnie made him disposed to give Sal a leg up on running away. Sal and Nathan and their brief stolen moments of adorability. The fucking candy factory I can't even. :-)

Also I am totally fascinated now by the fact that I find tapeworms-as-contagion / zombifying-vector sooooo much more interesting than tapeworms by themselves or for that matter zombies by themselves. Maybe because the zombies in the Newsflesh trilogy were basically lost, whereas it's clear that the tapeworms are people, and that there may be hope for some of the sleepwalkers to awake as a whole new species of being, which is just...fascinating.

That said, omg, Sherman freaks me the fuck out.

And I am so angry at what Dr. Banks did to Tansy, I can't even.

I cannot wait for the next book! And I am delighted that the press has presumably already told Seanan that they will publish it, because more income for Seanan + more fic for us = awesome in every way.
It's a really interesting take on zombies, isn't it? "Not quite zombies because they're being driven by tapeworms who may or may not wake up and become chimera" is definitely not something I've seen before and it's fascinating.

And I am so angry at what Dr. Banks did to Tansy, I can't even.

Seriously. What kind of monster? D: I hope all the horribleness he's done comes back and bites him really hard in the last book (and I hope somehow Tansy gets to be the one to deliver his helping of karma).
When we saw the note from Dr Banks about how Tansy wasn't human and therefore SymboGen didn't need to worry about ethical needs for anesthesia or pain relief... yeah. NOT good.

Deleted comment

I also wonder about Joyce becoming a host.
It arrived on Thursday and I had to wait until Saturday to start reading.

At first I was all "Yay, chapter from Tansy's POV!" and then I was all D-:

For some completely inexplicable reason I feel like I should watch Invasion of the Body Snatchers, and maybe also The Faculty.

I'm liking Sal much more now that she is self-aware and I'm not waiting for her to get a clue. (I re-read Parasite the week before, poor Sal, her coping mechanisms need some adjusting.)

My heart aches for Tansy and Anna.

Tansy. TANSY.

And RONNIE.

Seanan twists my heart in my chest. Mira rips it out and gleefully jumps on it. For this, I love you.