Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire
  • Mood: awake
  • Music: Amal and Stuart making brekkie.

THE WINTER LONG open thread!

To celebrate the release of The Winter Long, here. Have an open thread to discuss the book. Judging by the comments I'm seeing, some of you have had time, and I'd really, really rather book discussion (sometimes including spoilers) didn't crop up on other posts.

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Seriously. If anyone comments here at all, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS. So please don't read and then yell at me because you encountered spoilers. You were warned. (I will not reply to every comment; I call partial comment amnesty. But I may well join some of the discussion, or answer questions or whatnot.) I will be DELETING all comments containing spoilers which have been left on other posts. No one gets to spoil people here without a label.

You can also start a discussion at my website forums, with less need to be concerned that I will see everything you say! In case you wanted, you know, discussion free of authorial influence, since I always wind up getting involved in these things.

Have fun, and try not to bleed on the carpet.
Tags: discussion post, the winter long, toby daye
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  • 336 comments

Sean Robinson

September 3 2014, 04:23:10 UTC 2 years ago

Anyone else pick upon the next batch of threads that got laid down when Toby asks who Amandine's parents were and gets told that there might be some interesting truths hidden beneath some equally interesting lies?

My money is on Janet from the Tam Lin song. In An Artificial Night, Toby got taught Tam Lin as a children's song and it talks about how Janet broke Maeve's ride, which, in turn, made her go away. Annie also mentions that Oberon prevents evening from "wiping out the competition" in regards to Amandine and her children. Competition for what / for how?

But more than anything? I love Quentin. And more than anything beyond that? I want to see what happens with the Selkies. We were given a year count-down at the end of One Salt Sea. I want to see me some more heartbreak!

and as always, thank you for writing a novel i was so excited to get and read and re-read.

rymenhild

September 4 2014, 00:45:43 UTC 2 years ago

Janet ... the Luidaeg said, in those words, that Toby could find interesting truths and lies about her mother now that she wears gold in her hair.

I forbid ye, ladies all, that wear gold in your hair
To travel down to Carterhaugh now young Tam Lin is there.

We know from Artificial Night that there's a truth under the Tam Lin story.

I bet you are on to something.

professor

September 6 2014, 10:03:24 UTC 2 years ago Edited:  September 6 2014, 10:10:15 UTC

I agree. I'm doing a reread of all the books after reading The Winter Long. In One Salt Sea, Mary the Roane says about October: "Line of thieves, hers is, and they'd rob even royalty blind." Fair Janet has to be the greatest thief Faerie has ever known, given that by stealing back her lover, she functionally stole/broke the power of all the Three, since they've been missing since then.

Also, Simon said in this book that Amandine was born in Scotland and used to have a faint Scottish accent. Tam Lin is a traditional Scottish ballad.

jenfullmoon

September 6 2014, 15:46:51 UTC 2 years ago

Oooh, good point.

rymenhild

September 6 2014, 20:13:42 UTC 2 years ago

I've been thinking about it, and I think it's possible that Janet isn't Amandine's mother, but Amandine's grandmother. Janet is pregnant with Thomas's child when she pulls Thomas off of the white horse. Is Janet likely to have a child by Oberon as well? Maybe not. But Janet's child by Thomas could grow up to bear Amandine to Oberon, couldn't she? Much depends on exactly what happened when Janet broke Maeve's Ride. Did the Three all disappear right then, or was there some lag time?

But that bit about the line of thieves is very, very interesting.

brightlotusmoon

September 13 2014, 23:05:37 UTC 2 years ago

*leans forward, eyes wide* Ooooooh.

azurelunatic

September 28 2014, 08:43:29 UTC 2 years ago

I saw that too and went !!!!!! rather a lot.

LoveLeelanau

September 4 2014, 02:53:35 UTC 2 years ago Edited:  September 4 2014, 03:02:46 UTC

My theory, although it squicks me out, is that Eira is both Amandine's mother and her sister. My reasoning is as follows:

1. Both Eira and Amandine have magic that smells like roses.
2. Seanan has made it clear throughout the books that the aroma of one's magic is directly related to one's genetics.
3. Titania's magic is the one that smells of flowers, but it's been stated several times (correct me if I'm wrong) that Titania is NOT Amandine's mother.
4. The only other rose-scented Fae big gun is Acacia, and Amandine is far less likely to be half-Blodynbryd than half-Daoine Sidhe. Either way, Oberon is a creep.
5. Toby has an "Aha!" moment near the end of the book about the similarity in the scent of Amandine and Eira.
6. If you do a search for "Toby Daye Trivia" you'll find a 2011 question-and-answer by Seanan that has detailed info about the Three, Firstborn, and procreation. I tried to link it, but LJ tagged my post as spam when I did, so you'll have to look it up.

I wouldn't put it past Eira to have gone all Electra on Oberon, but it's a gross thought. It would be a good reason for Amandine's mother to be kept secret, though, and might shed more light on why Eira wants Toby dead (and possibly August out of the way). Who knows, it might even play a role in why Oberon, Maeve and Titania disappeared in the first place. Sheer speculation on my part, but the rose thing is a huge clue.

LoveLeelanau

September 4 2014, 03:06:29 UTC 2 years ago

Trying to post the link to the Toby Daye trivia about Firstborn, but LJ might flag it as spam.

http://seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com/384583.html (http://seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com/384583.html)

muchabstracted

September 6 2014, 13:12:52 UTC 2 years ago

Huh. Or maybe Amandine's mother is a human, as per one of the later questions on that thread. Such as the Janet character from Tam Lin.

angelamaria

September 4 2014, 03:49:53 UTC 2 years ago

Ew, squicky indeed, but I wouldn't put it past Eira to try. I wouldn't think it of Oberon (who seems fairly sane) but then he did have Maeve and Titania...

arya

September 4 2014, 15:10:17 UTC 2 years ago

Maeve's magic also smells like roses...

kveberle

September 4 2014, 19:50:01 UTC 2 years ago

Wouldn't that have allowed Eira to have fairly strong control over Toby? The book indicated that her control was strongest over those that were descended from her.

herefox

September 5 2014, 16:39:12 UTC 2 years ago

Also, it's made pretty clear that Toby doesn't have any of Titania's blood and Eira was born of Oberon and Titania, wasn't she?

herefox

September 5 2014, 17:39:47 UTC 2 years ago

Something interesting in that link about the first born: It claims every time a firstborn has children with a new lover it starts a new race. Which would mean that Toby and August might not both be Dochas Sidhe. Although maybe that doesn't count when it's a changeling born of a mortal and a firstborn.

Which could make Toby one of the few examples of having exactly the same skill set as her firstborn.

seanan_mcguire

September 7 2014, 07:56:41 UTC 2 years ago

Yes, but the Cait Sidhe came from three separate Firstborn. You can have a First who has multiple lovers, but children who are so similar that when they reproduce, they essentially are just varying degrees of the same type of fae. The Tuatha are a good example of this. Children of Amorica tend to have stronger teleportation, children of Elton have better illusions. They're still both considered Tuatha, even though obviously, they can't have had the same non-Firstborn parent.

Most of the time this will be the case, in fact, unless the second parent is another Firstborn, as with Acacia hooking up with Blind Michael after creating the Dryads.

angelamaria

September 7 2014, 12:31:49 UTC 2 years ago

Ooh thank you for clearing that up. I'd been wondering myself!

herefox

September 7 2014, 16:31:30 UTC 2 years ago

I was hoping you'd chime in with a little info! That makes a lot more sense and now that you've said that I remember a couple of mentions in one of the books about how the different bloodlines changed the powers of the person.

So in theory August could be running around raising people from the dead like a priest in a console rpg but bad at changing the balance of someone's blood and Toby the reverse (for an extreme example

This would also mean that despite August having a Daoine Sidhe (I always have to look these up, I can't imagine how long it took you to spell things correctly all the time!) as a father she'd still be a full Dochas Sidhe instead of mixed blood since she's born directly of her first with no other first as the father, if I'm understanding things correctly.

vixyish

September 8 2014, 18:21:34 UTC 2 years ago

I always have to look these up, I can't imagine how long it took you to spell things correctly all the time!

I'm guessing that her being a folklore major in college helped with that. :D

jenfullmoon

September 6 2014, 15:47:29 UTC 2 years ago

I want to see a Q&A about magic smells (especially their combinations with people) sometime.

seanan_mcguire

September 6 2014, 15:57:07 UTC 2 years ago

That's not going to happen until the series is long over.

marziek

September 9 2014, 03:53:00 UTC 2 years ago

I've also wondered about the incest angle...

seanan_mcguire

September 5 2014, 08:00:24 UTC 2 years ago

You are so very welcome.

We'll get to the Selkies eventually.

ironed_orchid

September 15 2014, 15:23:03 UTC 2 years ago

I love the idea that the Tam Lin story will come into Toby's heritage somewhere.