Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire
  • Mood: awake
  • Music: Amal and Stuart making brekkie.

THE WINTER LONG open thread!

To celebrate the release of The Winter Long, here. Have an open thread to discuss the book. Judging by the comments I'm seeing, some of you have had time, and I'd really, really rather book discussion (sometimes including spoilers) didn't crop up on other posts.

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Seriously. If anyone comments here at all, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS. So please don't read and then yell at me because you encountered spoilers. You were warned. (I will not reply to every comment; I call partial comment amnesty. But I may well join some of the discussion, or answer questions or whatnot.) I will be DELETING all comments containing spoilers which have been left on other posts. No one gets to spoil people here without a label.

You can also start a discussion at my website forums, with less need to be concerned that I will see everything you say! In case you wanted, you know, discussion free of authorial influence, since I always wind up getting involved in these things.

Have fun, and try not to bleed on the carpet.
Tags: discussion post, the winter long, toby daye
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hrhleia

September 3 2014, 15:55:21 UTC 2 years ago

I just have to say that I loved this book, as I have loved all of Toby's adventures, and reading it was the best birthday present I could have asked for. It's amazing how many answers were given and how many new questions were raised. I absolutely have to go back and read the series again with the revelations in mind, and see how many clues I (and Toby) missed along the way.

Like Toby, I fall more in love with Tybalt every time, and the ending made me so happy. It seems like most of Toby's relationships have been turned upside down, as her traditional supporters are drawing away while she leans more on the family she has found for herself.

Everything is amazing and intriguing and I will be surrounding myself with faerie for a good time to come!

seanan_mcguire

September 5 2014, 10:22:44 UTC 2 years ago

Thank you so much!

BayBitch

September 3 2014, 18:18:30 UTC 2 years ago

Wow. Just... wow. If I didn't have to work, I'd have read this twice by now. I absolutely am enthralled by how all of the characters in these books (this one especially) have become rather real, three-dimensional people. Toby all but leaps off the pages.

I also really, really like that those I believed were the 'bad guys' aren't necessarily so. I so truly distrust a straight-line story and this is anything but. The 'October Daye Chronicles' (as I call them) are so twisted and so magnetic that it is almost impossible to get out once one has started on the journey. I salute you, Seanan McGuire, for your incredible story-telling, your incredible cast of characters, and a truly wonderful journey you've taken me on.

seanan_mcguire

September 5 2014, 10:23:07 UTC 2 years ago

There's definitely very little that's really black/white in this.

umadoshi

September 3 2014, 21:49:40 UTC 2 years ago

I'm pretty sure this was my favorite Toby novel so far! Thank you so much for the lovely read!

seanan_mcguire

September 6 2014, 07:59:53 UTC 2 years ago

You're very welcome!

acelightning

September 4 2014, 04:02:28 UTC 2 years ago

Amazon tells me that my copy will arrive on Friday by "the end of the business day"... so of course I just read all the spoilers. And they just make me even more eager to read the book.

seanan_mcguire

September 6 2014, 08:00:08 UTC 2 years ago

Aw. :(

I wish you hadn't done that.

acelightning

2 years ago

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phoenix_singing

September 4 2014, 18:28:42 UTC 2 years ago Edited:  September 4 2014, 18:32:12 UTC

EVERYTHING I WAS TOLD WAS WRONG AND I LOVE IT. OMG THIS BOOK OMG. I'm going to have to do a series reread and I am okay with that!

Okay, capslock off:

I'm more and more convinced that Toby is eventually going to end up fully fae, not because she wants to, but because she's going to be forced to do it to survive (and if I recall correctly, she's already shifted her own blood around once, so...) And I'm really, REALLY curious as to who Amandine's mother is now. I need to sit and spin some theories on that one.

The Eira reveal was flawless. I was simultaneously saying "I did not see that coming" and "IT WAS THERE ALL ALONG." I love a plot twist that at first seems to come out of nowhere, then makes complete, absolute sense when you look at it and realize the pieces were there all along. Well played.

The Luidaeg was amazing as always and HOLY SHIT at the thought that she's actually killable...and that she's now in Toby's debt :O

My heart is breaking at what's happened with Sylvester and Luna. :(

And last but not least, Tybalt's question is the moment I've waited this whole series for and I didn't know it until it happened. I literally went "Aaawww! :D :D :D" at my desk at lunch break. LOL They are The True OTP.

Looking forward to the next book already! and more of Tybalt's weapons-grade butt-in-leather-pants mmmhmmm

seanan_mcguire

September 6 2014, 08:00:50 UTC 2 years ago

CORN KITTY HAS APPROVED.
ALL IS WELL.
ALL IS WELL.
WE MAY CONTINUE.

(So glad you liked it!)

phoenix_singing

2 years ago

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kveberle

September 4 2014, 20:30:38 UTC 2 years ago

This is my favorite of the series (and, yes, I say that every time one is released). I can't get over all of the revelations. I had been feeling like there was something off about Evening throughout the series, but I did not expect her to be alive! I expected that we would end up meeting Eira, but not that we would have already met her.

I loved how Toby saved the Luidaeg and the closeness between the two. I do think that the Luidaeg had a purpose behind her thanks. I think that she knows that Toby will need to rely on her (and I assume that this might help with her restrictions).

I am fascinated by the change in smell of Simon's magic. I initially thought that the change was from becoming evil, but then why would Riordan and Evening's magics not be tainted in the same way? My current theory is that it has something to do with the geas.

I am confused as to what Simon tried to do to Toby that made her bleed for so long...must re-read!

I wasn't surprised about the marriage or that Toby had (has?) a sister. To be honest, I thought that there would have been more siblings (I assumed that someone would have killed them off over their power).

I don't know how I am going to wait a whole year for the next book!

Jill Morrison Keppeler

September 5 2014, 00:56:41 UTC 2 years ago

I thought maybe it wasn't becoming evil ... or the geas ... but Simon's own knowledge of his corruption. Riordan and Evening don't *think* they're evil.

I get the impression Simon is all too aware ...

Darn it! How on earth did you make me sympathize with Simon, of all people! :D

kveberle

2 years ago

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dornbeast

2 years ago

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More Expand

Being prepared

tapati

September 5 2014, 16:14:16 UTC 2 years ago

I want to buy Toby a small backpack that she can carry some energy bars and drinks in plus water. If she's going to keep bleeding this much she can't really wait to get somewhere with a kitchen and take time to make a sandwich. Maybe she needs a few blood-colored shirts as well. Oh and maybe a bottle of floradix to chug.

Spoilers!


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I did guess who would make the most likely and satisfactory villain and thought "well it is fantasy and people are always coming back from the dead somehow." I always thought there was a lot of aggression in their relationship and wondered why Toby allowed herself to be treated like that. I guess being a second class citizen as a Changeling had a lot to do with that. Anyway, I knew it had to be a major character that we'd observed her encounter before and I knew you would play fair.

I'm guessing this need to either control Toby or kill her on the part of Evening is about Toby's abilities and the danger of her becoming more fae, stronger, and learning the full scope of what she can do. Somehow Toby is a danger to her and/or her long term plans. So keep your enemy close and fool her into seeing you as a friend. Brilliant plan even if it didn't work out that way in the end.

Luna has me shaking my head. She needs to get over herself. The things Toby has put herself through for that family... I'm also with Toby on hating it when people to keep secrets from me.

As always love the progression of Toby's relationship with Tybalt. :)

Much love for the Luidaeg as well. She should have been given a loophole to protect herself if attacked.

Now if they can just find a way to protect Quentin from the effects of Evening's thrall. They can't always count on keeping her away from him.

seanan_mcguire

September 6 2014, 08:02:11 UTC 2 years ago

I'm surprised at how little "eewwwwwww" there has been over Evening's plans for Quentin.

crewgrrl

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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crewgrrl

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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crewgrrl

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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herefox

September 5 2014, 17:15:34 UTC 2 years ago

This was amazing. I did not see Evening coming back from the dead coming at all! I had sort of guessed from one of other books that Simon was Toby's step father by something Sylvester had said in passing along with Arden being surprised that Amandine had married twice but almost all the other revelations knocked me for a loop.

I was, however, terrified that Evening had actually permanently killed the Luidaeg and may have clutched the book in thanksgiving when Toby brought her back. I had a feeling that something's changed with some of the restrictions on the Luidaeg due to dying as well, it seems like she was ecstatic about it in some ways and she was more free with information afterwards.

August as a sister Toby didn't know about...I vaguely remember that Sylvester had a relative named September? But I could be wrong, I need to reread.

I'm a bit sad that Luna seems so bitter with Toby. I liked her in the first books and while I can see why she might have issues with someone of the things that have happened since then she's also had her life saved by her, even if it wasn't in time to save her kitsune skin as well.

angelamaria

September 6 2014, 01:42:12 UTC 2 years ago

I vaguely remember that Sylvester had a relative named September?

Yep! Funnily enough, she was linked to Tybalt at some point. (Simon also alludes to it in-book.)

jenfullmoon

2 years ago

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angelamaria

2 years ago

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celticdragonfly

2 years ago

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angelamaria

2 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

2 years ago

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anjali6

September 5 2014, 19:43:47 UTC 2 years ago

Hey Seanan, thanks for another great book. read it twice now and can i just say the more i read the toby daye series, the more convinced i am that the Luideag is based on you. She is too awesome.

and has anyone else besides me noticed something off about "Marcia" in Goldengreen. when evening flung that spell about and everyone almost drowned, it was Marcia who was left standing and helping Dean. it was also Marcia who appeared as if she already knew about Arden being the princess in "chimes at midnight". Also hopefully we will get to meet more firstborns soon as this war heats up.

thanks again for the wonderful book ....given me an excuse to re read the series from the start.

purlgurly

September 5 2014, 21:55:02 UTC 2 years ago

Crazy theory - could Marcia be August with a *seriously* altered balance of blood? If Amandine's mother was mortal, August could have had up to 1/4 mortal blood...

angelamaria

2 years ago

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lazzchan

2 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

2 years ago

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professor

2 years ago

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angelamaria

2 years ago

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kveberle

2 years ago

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angelamaria

2 years ago

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kveberle

2 years ago

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bibliophile20

September 5 2014, 21:01:56 UTC 2 years ago

I wrote a big review over on my Tumbr; it has spoilers below a certain point, so I'm not going to repost it here, but I would like to link, with the warning that there are spoilers at that link.

Linky!

seanan_mcguire

September 6 2014, 09:27:37 UTC 2 years ago

Thank you!

purlgurly

September 5 2014, 21:46:59 UTC 2 years ago

So if the Luidaeg was Vivienne and Evening was Morgan le Fay, I wonder who Merlin and Mordred were/are...

seanan_mcguire

September 6 2014, 09:27:50 UTC 2 years ago

Questions, questions, questions.

marziek

2 years ago

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k_10b

2 years ago

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melebeth

September 6 2014, 17:08:21 UTC 2 years ago

Great. Now I have to reread all the earlier Toby books looking for clues. Fortunately, I own them all, but STILL! I had other things I wanted to read this week!!!!

seanan_mcguire

September 6 2014, 17:40:30 UTC 2 years ago

Sorry! (Not sorry.)

melebeth

2 years ago

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sdelmonte

September 7 2014, 01:35:23 UTC 2 years ago

Much wow. Spend much of shabbos racing through this one. Didn't see any of it coming, though of course I should have. So many answers, each with its own set of questions.

I found myself liking Simon despite myself. Despite himself. Somewhere in there is a broken man who just wants his daughter back. OK, somewhere in there is also a conniving member of a races of connivers. But he stands in great contrast to both his brother's cold heroism and Oleander's hot blooded darkness.

And Sylvester...he used to be my favorite character. Not these days. Seriously, Sylvester, get off your high horse and come clean with Toby.

My favorite character now? Maybe Annie. Maybe Quentin. Maybe Tybalt. Maybe Toby. It's amazing little core cast, isn't it?

Funniest lines? Annie admiring Tybalt's backside. Tybalt discovering the dry cleaner. Raj flirting with Chelsea.

Best book of a great series. Now time to wait a whole year for the next one.

seanan_mcguire

September 7 2014, 07:49:50 UTC 2 years ago

Thank you. :) Your good opinion means a lot to me.

lazzchan

2 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

September 7 2014, 07:50:33 UTC 2 years ago

Why in the world would you think that I would answer that? I don't give spoilers, ever, either positive or negative. What you get is what's in the books and non-spoiler worldbuilding. :)

taylweaver

September 7 2014, 01:50:20 UTC 2 years ago

Awesome as usual.

I was especially impressed by the scene where Jazz is dying and May is freaking out while also trying to explain to Toby how to save her. The way May was talking, and the various kinds of tension in that scene were just right in ways I'm having trouble explaining in words. But it just worked so well.

Also, it was unsettling to see that the Luidaeg is killable, though I was sure, from a broader narrative standpoint, that she wouldn't stay dead, because she clearly has more story left, so of course that meant that Toby would be able to bring her back. After all, there's stuff that needs to happen with the Selkies.

Speaking of the Luidaeg, I also love how she's gotten more and more blatant about making sure Toby knows the rules, prompting her to ask for help a third time, or telling her that she has to say, "I understand" in order to accept the Luidaeg's debt to her. And that scene, in particular, also left me wondering whether the Luidaeg has a specific reason to want to be in Toby's debt, whether there's something (or more than one something) that she'll be able to do at Toby's request that she wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.

In general, I was shocked by just how not-shocked I was by most of the revelations in this book. Which is not to say I saw them coming, because I didn't. (Though I think one of my friends mentioned her Eira=Evening theory to me at some point, only I then forgot she'd said it.) It's just that every new piece of information made so much sense that all of them seemed to flow organically from the story, leaving me nodding and going, "oh, of course," even though I hadn't predicted a single one of them. So that was some good foreshadowing.

Also, as a detail person, I was left thinking about how magic smells, and how that smell can change, as it did with Simon. I wonder how that works, and also whether Toby would be able to see past such a change. It also left me wondering how changing the balance of someone's blood might change the smell of their magic. What does Raysel's magic smell like now, I wonder? Especially because it seems to me that both the roses and the hot wax come from her mother's side. (Though I suppose roses also come from her father's firstborn, clearly, and maybe there's some other origin for the hot wax, but I tend to associate candle wax with Blind Michael.)

And the new information about the Selkies got me thinking about how a Selkie without a skin is a merlin, which means they've got a small amount fae blood in them even if they don't get a skin. I was left wondering whether they're descended from a specific race, or just merlins in general, and what accepting a skin does to their magic. After all, Reysel was able to borrow one a few books back without permanent change, but when Toby was a merlin in Chimes at Midnight, the Luidaeg offered her a skin, but said it would change who she was permanently. It also left me wondering what Toby could do for Selkies who hadn't gotten skins, whether she could take what little fae blood they had, and change that balance so that they'd be fully fae without the skins. (Also now wondering whether a Selkie with a skin is kind of like the changeling version of a Roane.)

Lastly, I am noticing more and more the close connection between roses and blood.

seanan_mcguire

September 7 2014, 07:51:18 UTC 2 years ago

It's always been about blood and roses.

purlgurly

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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brightone

September 7 2014, 02:06:02 UTC 2 years ago

Just finished.

I had a lot of "oh SHIT" moments and a lot of "well, OF COURSE" moments. Lots of surprises but nothing that felt like it came out of nowhere.

I teared up a couple times, especially when Dianda was trying to comfort Toby, even though I KNEW Tybalt and Quentin weren't really dead (well, I was pretty sure).

Sylvester and Luna made me so sad. And so did Simon but in an entirely different way.

But then the ending was just delightful and made me happy even though I am certain that they will be happy for approximately 12 minutes before poor Toby has to go save the world AGAIN.

I loved it. Thank you.

seanan_mcguire

September 7 2014, 07:51:41 UTC 2 years ago

Poor Dianda. She is not built for comforting people.

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purlgurly

2 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

2 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

2 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

September 7 2014, 17:37:14 UTC 2 years ago

No problem. :) Try the forums for conversation without authorial butt-ins.

kveberle

September 7 2014, 17:37:15 UTC 2 years ago

The more that I think about the Thorn Road, the more it reminds me of a Stephen King short story (I think that it was called The Shortcut). I know that you are a fan of his...was there an intentional similarity?

seanan_mcguire

September 7 2014, 17:38:07 UTC 2 years ago

Fae roads being different in length from mortal roads is well-established in the mythology.

kveberle

2 years ago

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metrocake

September 7 2014, 22:21:18 UTC 2 years ago

I know things have gotten "complicated" between Luna and Toby, but I'm also convinced that *something* else has happened (is happening?) to Luna, either from the poisoning or... Toby says at least once in the most recent book that she's seen "old Luna" in her eyes and it's making me wonder. Luna's gotten more and more distant from Toby so maybe this is an ongoing thing? Or maybe the poisoning has just made her go madder, faster?...

boxlawyer

September 8 2014, 04:15:46 UTC 2 years ago

I have to admit that I've been wondering what's really going on with Luna as well! The last time Toby spoke to her "on page" was in Ashes of Honor when they were looking for someone to help them get Raj back. In that book, Luna is nothing like how she is in this book. If something is working on Luna that would explain how she went from being quiet and disturbed as she is in AoH to how she is in TWL.

seanan_mcguire

2 years ago

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angelamaria

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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anne_d

September 8 2014, 17:53:45 UTC 2 years ago

I read Winter Long a second time, more slowly, and now I'm rereading the whole Toby saga in order. Thank you, thank you, Seanan, for giving me so much goodness when I need it. There's a reason your books live in the comfort books bookshelf.

Anyway, I just had to mention that my favorite scene in the book, even more than all the Toby and Tybalt loveliness *hearts* is - has to be - Auntie Luideag teasing Toby about her hot boyfriend and his leather pants. That is so human and ordinary and affectionate, so much a family thing, and shows how far the two of them have come and how much Toby has grown, that it makes me smile and tear up all at once. I love it. I may have to put a bookmark in there, just so I can read that passage when I need cheering up. Thank you.

seanan_mcguire

September 12 2014, 06:29:40 UTC 2 years ago

Aw.

You are so welcome.

marziek

September 9 2014, 00:06:51 UTC 2 years ago Edited:  September 9 2014, 00:18:21 UTC

So now I'm listening to the audiobook, since I'm not getting steady time for the reread, and I have shown up here to say that one of things I have loved most about this book is that I feel that Toby is finally really learning how to use her magic. Not just for her detective work, not just to ride the blood, or escape a dungeon, but defensively, protectively and in a way that shows she's owning who she is like never before in the series. She's strong for those she loves and finally for herself, too. And I love the family she's built for herself, with her sister Fetch, with Tybalt, Jazz, Quentin, Raj and the Luidaeg (still worried about Selkie debt and whatever Toby unleashed by waking the dead- Evening's geas might still have been there but it's clear something else changed). With Arden, Quentin, Tybalt and the Luidaeg in her corner, who needs the cold, crazy Torquill Duchy, slumbering Simon and crazy mama, Amandine, anyway?

Of course, undying curiosity about Amandine's parentage (did she even have a mother? was her mother a tree or a stone or a *gasp* human! I wonder? I have vague worries about a GRRM scenario in which her grandmother is also her aunt, but nevermind...) and where is August? With Acacia? Lost back in Blind Michael's realm? Wouldn't she be powerful, being half Dóchas Sidhe and half Daoine Sidhe? Oh, the anticipation! I want it to be fall 2015!

Real questions, if they aren't spoilers:

BTW, is September Torquill in Rat-Catcher actually Simon and Sylvester's sister?

Oh, and in your world, is Black Annis a whole different person from Gentle Annie?

hevia

September 9 2014, 02:24:11 UTC 2 years ago

Yes, September was their sister.

marziek

2 years ago

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acelightning

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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acelightning

2 years ago

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jenk

2 years ago

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acelightning

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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professor

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

2 years ago

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vixyish

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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anna_en_route

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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hevia

September 9 2014, 02:53:44 UTC 2 years ago

I can't believe I'm on book 8 of a series and STILL addicted. This is proof that the author is awesome! :D My attention span is sometimes on the short side.

Reading all these theories has me seriously humbled. I guess I prefer to just read and let things be revealed in their own time. (Though I do admit to wondering how everyone, especially Tybalt, made it all the way to San Fransisco. And is Tybalt's sister still alive?)

So many things revealed! So many more questions arise! Totally didn't see Evening not being dead. She is EVIL - no likey. Suspected Simon was somehow related to October because of her name though wasn't expecting to have so much sympathy for him. Very disappointed with Sylvester and Luna. Hope we get to see Raysel sane at some point - poor girl deserves better. Surprised Toby has a sister. Wondering about Marcia - she was acting odd previously and her withstanding the attack - definitely more than meets the eye there. Adore Toby's relationship with Tybalt - his uninhibited displays of affection and the way they work to support each other. A good match - they're both bloodthirsty in their own way. I suspect if a wedding happens, Toby will be bleeding all over her gown though lol. Definitely can't wait for the next book! Never thought growing up that I would look forward to September. :)

seanan_mcguire

September 12 2014, 06:31:10 UTC 2 years ago

Hooray!

dragonsally

September 9 2014, 11:45:04 UTC 2 years ago

My copy of the book arrived this morning and I have spent a blissful day reading.  Damn but I hate the feeling when you've finished and now have to wait forever for the next book.
Oh man Seanan.  I didn't see any of these twists coming.  I didn;tthink it was possible to be more in love with Toby but I am.  I'm looking forward to finding out about her grandmother and her sister and all the other surprises you have waiting.

And now, I'm going to start the book again and go more slowly, looking out in case there are things I've missed.

seanan_mcguire

September 12 2014, 06:31:22 UTC 2 years ago

Hee hee hee yay.

vixyish

2 years ago

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dragonsally

2 years ago

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acelightning

September 10 2014, 04:06:21 UTC 2 years ago

Wow. I never expected Toby to be able to revive the Luidaeg, who is practically a Goddess in the context of your books. (And I never expected to see the Luidaeg make "medicinal chowder", but that's a completely different matter.)

You're going to have to spend a lot of time at all of the Disneyland pageants in order to write Toby and Tybalt's wedding. I figure it's going to need at least a millennial aurora display, and maybe a comet, along with enough wedding cake to appear as a previously undiscovered minor continent, and probably the Beatles reunion. And don't forget the clothes!

On the serious side, I've been wondering for a while - just who/what the fuck is Marcia? And this book got me wondering what became of August. Or is Marcia August??? (Or could her "real" name be March?) Those are not direct questions, because I know you won't answer them, but if someone else wants to hazard a guess...

seanan_mcguire

September 12 2014, 06:32:03 UTC 2 years ago

Let's face it: they'll be lucky to get a courthouse and a really quick "do you? Great" before whatever's trying to eat them this week appears.

acelightning

2 years ago

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vixyish

2 years ago

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acelightning

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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acelightning

2 years ago

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azurelunatic

2 years ago

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acelightning

2 years ago

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dragonsally

2 years ago

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marziek

2 years ago

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acelightning

2 years ago

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