Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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And then Seanan talked about fanfic some more.

It's no secret that I spend a lot of time thinking about fanfic. (And those links are just "fanfic as a general concept"; they don't touch on my frequent crankiness about the concept of the Mary Sue, or connect to any of my actual fanfic.) I think fanfic is a hugely important part of the way we interact with stories as a society, and that it's really so much older than anyone wants to admit. Remember that Shakespeare was, in many ways, writing fanfic. Remember that the Brothers Grimm changed the stories they collected to better suit themselves, which is part of the definition of fanfic. It's an ancient tradition, and it goes back to the first time someone told a story they'd heard about a friend, but modified it to be a little bit more interesting.

I am not saying that everyone in the world needs to write, read, or adore fanfic. For one thing, I don't think there's any truly universal "everybody has to do this" experience, except for maybe peeing. Everybody pees, right? For the purposes of this essay, everybody pees. (If you do not pee, please don't tell me.) So no, if you're not into writing fanfic, I am not judging you. I am not saying you're not awesome. If you're not into reading fanfic...I think there's a very good chance your definition is too narrow. Shakespeare, as I have said, wrote fanfic. Virgil. Bridget Jones's Diary and Wicked are both alternate universe, or "AU," fanfic of other people's properties. 10 Things I Hate About You and Easy A, also basically fanfic. Any company or studio-owned property where the original author is no longer in charge? Kinda fanfic, on a lot of levels.

You do not have to read Harry/Draco romantic coffee shop Little Mermaid AUs to be reading fanfic. Fanfic is everywhere. The fact that some of it is based on things that have slipped into the public domain does not make it any less fanfic: it just makes it fanfic that can be sold for a profit.

In recent discussions of fanfic, I've seen several people say things along the lines of "but all fanfic is about sex" and "it's not okay when people write relationships that don't exist in the canon." (Neither of these is an exact quote: I am paraphrasing from multiple sources, in part because I'm not trying to call anyone out in specific, and in part because these are sentiments that I've seen repeated on almost every discussion of fanfic. I think that it's something we need to talk about.

First up, "all fanfic is about sex."

This is patently untrue. A huge amount of fanfic is about things other than sex. I read a novel's-worth of fanfic every week or so, and I very rarely read explicit sex unless it happens in the context of a long, long story about other things. Most of my favorite fanfic would not be rated above an "R." Much of it wouldn't get above "PG-13." But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that 50% of fanfic is purely about the sex. 50% of fanfic, however well or poorly written, is only there for bangin', clangin', and bringing down the house. Okay.

And?

Erotica is a big deal. Porn is a big deal. There's a huge amount of it out there, and there's a whole industry dedicated to making porn parodies of popular properties. XXX-Men and the Anal Avengers and Wet Dream on Elm Street, these are all things that exist. They're basically thinly veiled visual fanfic, much of which is incredibly male-gazey and heteronormative and gives us the superficials ("A dude dressed like Giles is going down on a chick dressed like Willow in the latest installment of Muffy the Trouser Slayer!") without giving us the things that draw us to the property in the first place. "Porn with plot" is a huge fanfic category because people want to write some fun erotica, but want it to actually be about characters, not cheap cosplay with enormous primary and secondary sexual organs.

Some of the pairings fanfic authors pursue will make some people uncomfortable. I used to be heavily involved with Supernatural fandom, and I hated the most popular pairing, which put two brothers together in sexual situations. But the nice thing about fanfic is that responsible fanfic authors will tag their smut. So if I clicked a link for a piece of fic and saw "M/M, Sam/Dean, Incest, NC-17" as the tags, I knew that I needed to nope on out of there. The authors, who hurt no one, got to have their fun; their readers, who hurt no one, got to read some awesome smut; I went and found stories about Dean and Jo being awesome, often in a fully platonic way. Not everything is for everyone.

But okay: some people don't want to read about non-canonical sex. That's cool. Just don't click that link, and you'll be safe from all the porn. Porn cannot in fact follow you home.

Note: I am not saying that you need to start reading fanfic porn. No one is required to read anything, unless they're taking a class. (If you do not want to read fanfic porn, avoid courses titled "Tranformative Erotica in the Copyright Age.") But using "there is porn" as a way to shut down all fanfic is reductive and unnecessary, and what it shows is not a clean-minded commitment to the canon; it's a refusal to consider that there could be depth and meaning to something that is hugely important in a whole lot of lives.

Secondly, we have "it's not okay when people write relationships that don't exist in the canon."

I want to tell you two very important things that it took me a long time to realize. The first is that if you're talking about something like a TV show or a comic book or a movie, the odds are very good that those characters, and that canon, were created by committee. You will have multiple people putting words into the same mouths, and while there's generally an effort made to keep characterization relatively straightforward, at the end of the day, each of the real people will have a different version of that fictional character in their heads. Take, for example, Usagi Tsukino, better known by most people as "Sailor Moon."

Usagi's role on the show is to love. It is to be a soldier of love, a warrior of love, someone who will die for love. She is love all-encompassing, love without limits. Yeah, she's a little immature sometimes, but that's okay, because she loves you.

My friend Nikki is doing an end-to-end rewatch of Sailor Moon. In a recent episode, there was a scene where Usagi, upon being presented a love letter from a girl, said "I'm taken," which is totally great and good, and then "But you should fall in love with a boy, it's way better" (paraphrase). Um, what? This is a girl who has died and been reborn for love, who is in awe of the relationship between two female friends, and who has never said anything like this before. It's just a little dagger of heteronormativity coming unexpectedly from the mouth of the living avatar of love. (Nikki points out that Usagi did say something similar once, about a hundred episodes earlier, before she really got to know Haruka and Michiru, and that both times, it was done purely for comedic effect. So take that as you will.)

It's canon. She said it on the show. But it's not a thing my Usagi would ever say, and it may not be a thing that Naoko Takeuchi's Usagi would ever say. Naoko Takeuchi created the franchise. She did not write that episode. Do you see where I'm going with this? It is entirely possible to have things in the canon that contradict the character as it was intended.

The second is that creators can be wrong. I have written scenes in various books and stories that were pointed to by my beta readers (thankfully) as being incorrect. Sylvester wouldn't say that; the Luidaeg wouldn't do that. Because I have good betas, I can fix those things, but there's always the chance that someday I will go entirely off the rails. I will kill a character because I am mad at a real person who loves the fictional person I have created. I will write a final chapter before I actually begin the series, and refuse to revise it. I will do something that makes my most loyal readers go "whoa, fuck, back it up babe."

Some of them will back it up with fanfic.

Note that this only addresses creator failure. With shows and movies, there's real life to be considered as well. I know a lot of Glee fanfic authors who have gone fully AU following the deal of Cory Monteith, who played the romantic lead. They don't want to continue the series without him, and I can't blame them at all.

Now that I have told you these two very important things, and their sub-things, here is another thing: who cares?

When I watched Kim Possible, I always expected Kim to wind up with Shego, not Ron. I believed that Myka and H.G. were meant to be (I still do). I looked at Parker and Hardison and Elliot and saw a family unit that was never going to give a damn about who was sleeping with who (although Elliot would probably tell you that Hardison had a very distinctive snore, while sleeping with Parker was like sleeping with an abnormally large housecat that hogged the pillows). In the first, it was a cartoon; never going to happen. In the second, I'm not sure why the writers made the choice they did. In the third, I got my wish. But if I hadn't, the way I viewed the show would have remained entirely valid.

I get checking out when someone is writing a pairing that doesn't work for you. My dislike of Sam/Dean in Supernatural has less to do with them being brothers than it does to do with the fact that I just can't buy them as a couple. But sometimes couples have surprised me. I just finished reading an epic-length Harry Potter fic where Neville/Padma was a primary pairing, and I would never have expected it to be awesome, and it was awesome. There is room for beauty outside the canon, especially when the canon is the work of many hands.

Especially with older fandoms, or with pairings that involve a lead character, straight is an assumed default. Well, statistically, that's not right. One in ten. So that's one Ensign, one Companion, one whatever in ten, minimum, who shouldn't be straight. When I'm writing fic about a show that didn't give me the representation I needed, what's wrong with wanting to see it? (Before the inevitable question: the reason writing Buffy/Faith is applauded, and Tara/Xander is likely to get you a frowny face, is that same issue of representation. One in ten. Currently, we have less than one in fifty on a canonical level. Taking it away because you want to show that it's an equal playing field is not creating an equal playing field. It's being a jerk. Unless that is the only story you want to write, please, consider the numbers, and don't.)

I'm not expecting to convince anyone who's already decided fanfic is awful that they should give it another try; some ships have sailed. But I am asking that you consider the arguments you hear about it, and consider why they might be flawed. There's nothing wrong with writing a little smut. There's nothing wrong with having your own view of the canon, especially when that canon goes on for more than a single book. And there's nothing wrong with seeking representation where there isn't enough.

These are all reasons that fanfic is glorious, and that I am so, so glad to be a part of the fic community. I always will be.
Tags: contemplation, fanfiction
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Okay, but the important question here is: is the Harry/Draco coffeeshop Little Mermaid AU an actual thing you have actually read, and do you have a link?

Wonderful post, thank you from the bottom of my fangirl heart.
It is not, but it probably will be very soon.

cerulean_sky

3 years ago

maladaptive

3 years ago

gement

3 years ago

fadedbluejeans

2 years ago

gement

2 years ago

Here's why having a whole lot of fanfic that focuses on sex puts me off fanfic... OK, so you have best friends, which is an important relationship, so they have sex. You have people on the same team, so they have sex. You have a mentor and student, which is an important relationship, so they have sex. You have siblings, which is an important relationship, so they have sex. You have a parent and their child, hey, let's write a romance starting with the parent raping the child, because relationships must involve sex.

It feels like it devalues any relationship that does not involve sex, and considering I had my first crush worth mentioning when I was 25, and 6 years later still am not convinced sex is something I want, for me personally it's the opposite of better representation, but telling me "you can never be close to anyone, because a that must involve sex".
And that is 100% fair and legitimate and valid, and I do not feel that relationships which do not include sex are in any way less important than those that do. Vixy would beat me with a brick if I said that.

But at the same time, much of my point was that a lot of fanfic is not about sex. You can find enormous amounts of non-sexual fanfic. The existence of fanfic that includes sex does not invalidate or wipe away that fic, and any good archive will have good tags that tell you when it's safe to read.

griffen

3 years ago

graycardinal

3 years ago

dormouse_in_tea

3 years ago

I love you for this. (And many, many other things, of course, but this is the newest.)
Aw.

<3

_dante_sparda_

3 years ago

Yes to all of this! The other thing i think is oft overlooked is that fanfic is about writing and reading as part of a community.Fanfic arises (mostly) out of a shared experience of viewing and loving a text. The relationship between author and reader is emeshed and immediate and iterative in a way thats very different from other writing.
Oh, absolutely. I've written about that before, actually! I just wanted to focus on the two things I see most frequently used to shut "fanfic is real writing" down.

museclio

3 years ago

I really appreciated this post. Some of the best fic I've read has done things like convert Bechdel-test-failing episodes to passes, no sex involved.

Also, color me most unhappy with that aspect of the Warehouse-13 finale.
I yelled and cringed a lot through the last few episodes. I choose to believe that they were under the influence of an artifact and Helena and Kelly show up and snap them out of it.

seanan_mcguire

3 years ago

Deleted comment

Your friends Mass Effect fic sounds awesome.

Although I've never gotten around to writing any of it, I've spent a lot of time thinking Varric from the Dragon Age series in the same way. I was really disappointed that he was not a romanceable character.

Deleted comment

autographedcat

3 years ago

skellington1

3 years ago

seanan_mcguire

3 years ago

museclio

3 years ago

fiveforsilver

3 years ago

baron_waste

July 5 2014, 06:24:49 UTC 3 years ago Edited:  July 5 2014, 06:29:51 UTC

Yet a distinction must be drawn between fanfic, which still respects the property no less for taking a few liberties with it (You must read Skipp & Levinthal's The Emerald Burrito of Oz at your first opportunity.  Seriously) and simply ripping off the concept, “filing off the serial numbers” for your own use.

I'm thinking particularly of the Edgar Rice Burroughs clones who sprang up in the wake of his Barsoom stories.  Some of them were just blatant (imagine Spaceballs presented with a straight face) and as late as 1966, John Norman's Tarnsman of Gor “borrowed” heavily from A Princess of Mars. Lone hero transported to Mars, swings sword, woos princess, gets flipped back to Earth…  Mmm hmm.

[Personally, I wonder if this is why ERB's estate so locked down the property that NOTHING has been done with it until the film John Carter of Mars.  TSR attempted to market a Barsoom-themed role-playing game in 1975 or so; you've never heard of it, because it was yanked off the shelf.  Oops…  It's too bad; I think Barsoom might be interesting from a modern-day, A Barnstormer in - or Emerald Burrito of - treatment.]

On the gripping hand, 1980's Battle Beyond the Stars was inarguably a blatant ripoff of 1960's The Magnificent Seven… but the production never denied it, indeed was so unashamed of it that they even cast Robert Vaughn as the same analogous character!  So there you'd have to say, “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”



p s  There are serious Trekkies, myself among them, who would argue that Berman & Braga's “One more squeeze” effort, Enterprise, was nothing but a big-budget ripoff of the intellectual property.

I'm confused as to how ERB's properties could all be "locked down" when all but the last few years of his various series are out of copyright. "A Princess of Mars" was published in 1912!

baron_waste

3 years ago

dragoness_e

3 years ago

sixthbrightest

3 years ago

djonn

3 years ago

seanan_mcguire

3 years ago

skellington1

3 years ago

baron_waste

3 years ago

Deleted comment

The “safety valve” for RPFs is, of course, Alternate History.  Harry Turtledove excels at this; his “Worldwar” series is perhaps the most elaborate, but he does it elsewhere also and looking merely at How Few Remain, we're shown Sam Clemens, George Custer, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Geronimo, Wyatt Earp, Count Alfred von Schlieffen, &c., as they might be in a world where an accident - or rather, the lack of an accident of history allows the Southern States to survive Northern extermination, and the “proud new flag” of the Confederate States of America joins the nations of the world… with consequences in the 20th Century to come.

[In the 1880s the disgraced former President A Lincoln is still politically active, and a young T Roosevelt meets him face to face and denounces him as “a Marxian socialist” (!) Later, the vain, ridiculous, near-senile but still rat-shrewd General Custer helps to fight the First World War…]

I confess that I surrendered to this myself; somewhere out there is an AD 1955 where Norma Carey, a brown-haired comedienne who seems to mix equal parts of Clara Bow and Carol Burnett, does sexy funny USO tours for the boys fighting a World War that still hasn't ended, and no one has ever heard the name “Marilyn Monroe”…

baron_waste

3 years ago

seanan_mcguire

3 years ago

Kim Possible fanfic taught me a couple of interesting things, which considerably altered my perspectives on the whole business of canon and non-canon pairings. (I note here that much of what follows may well fall into the category of Stuff Seanan Already Knows. My intent here, though, is as much -- or more -- to address the wider gallery as to respond to Our Beloved Hostess.)

On the one hand, there was (and is) a great deal of fic featuring the Kim/Ron (or K/R) pairing -- and some of it I thought was really well done. OTOH, there also was (and is) a great deal of fic featuring Kim/Shego (aka Kigo)...and as I poked my nose into some of that, I discovered that there was a good deal of really well done Kigo fic out there, too. Interestingly, most knowledgeable sources will tell you that the great preponderance of fanfic is written by women. I have every reason to believe that this is, in fact, true; I have hovered on the fringes of a number of fic-producing communities over the years, and most of them have consisted primarily of women.

Weirdly, though, in the specific case of Kim Possible fanfic, my experience was that a lot of the best stuff was being written by men, on both the K/R and Kigo sides of the fence. And by "a lot" I mean "running into the millions of words, in a large handful of extended series (one or two of which are really extended)". Also, this doesn't count the series with what amounts to a meta/self-insertion pairing that absolutely should not work in a million years -- and yet does, brilliantly. Mind, this emphatically does not mean that there's no good KP fanfic by women -- far from it -- but at least in the communities where I was hanging out, the male writers were generally more active and prolific. [This was Before AO3, so organized fandom was concentrated differently than it is now.]

What I learned from all this is that -- for me, at least -- it isn't so much the pairing that matters as the execution. If the author lays his or her groundwork properly, I will happily buy a Kim/Shego pairing for the purposes of a given story-universe -- but in a different story-universe, I'll just as happily read about an evolving relationship between Kim and Ron. And this premise has proven valid across different fandoms as I've continued to wade into other fanfictional waters over time.

I should add here that almost none of the KP fic I was reading rose to the level of smut/erotica/porn/"mature" (depending on your attitudes toward explicit sexual content). It was certainly true that the considerable majority of KP fic was relationship-driven, and that those relationships included sex, but I pretty much avoided the M-rated/explicit material and still had the aforementioned millions of words to choose from.
it isn't so much the pairing that matters as the execution

So very true, in both fanfic and original work.

ellie101

July 5 2014, 08:57:33 UTC 3 years ago Edited:  July 5 2014, 09:02:33 UTC

Well said! And I like being told the stats for the anti-straight. I do think there is a vast underrepresentation for anyone that falls outside the dominated 'norm.'

And I think sexuality and race are the two biggies so Yay for representation!

I'll never understand how people can be so dismissive of fanfic. Especially as you're exactly right and so much derivative work is in fact just another facet of Fic.

It's such a wonderful tool and creative outlet and it's so terrific that you advocate for Fic rather than tearing it down. :)

Yay Seanan! You are made of awesome!

(Edited BC of stupid phone.)
I try to be!
Oh yes. And also: there's a shitload of SF that is fanfic where it is not permitted to call it fanfic because that would get fanfic cooties all over it.

So: Spider Robinson writes a Heinlein tribute novel? Yes, but it's not fanfic. Scalzi writes a Heinlein tribute novel? John Varley writes a Heinlein tribute novel? Fuck it, HTNs are fanfic -- thematic and conceptual fanfic with differing yes-we-really-filed-the-serial-numbers-off-good characters, but fanfic nonetheless. (And yes, I'm guilty too.)

Merely changing the character names doesn't divorce your derivative work from the fanfic universe if the voice is so unique and distinctive that it's blatantly clear what you're riffing off.
It's worse for women, sadly: see also the flack Sarah Rees Brennan, who is splendid, gets for even looking like she may have referenced another work, while the same behavior from male authors is "homage." Women are apparently ten times more susceptible to fanfic cooties, and must be guarded at all times, lest our honor be besmirched beyond all possible recovery.

geekhyena

3 years ago

autopope

3 years ago

sixthbrightest

3 years ago

thedragonweaver

3 years ago

This is a lovely post, thank you for writing it!

I went to a panel on fanfiction at a convention recently and it ticked me (and my girlfriend) of to no end, as all three presenters on the panel were very anti-fanfic, and anti-fanfic without really understanding the modern fanfic 'scene' per se. They had no knowledge of AO3 or that there were authors that are totally cool with fanfic or anything, and it was really disheartening to listen to. I don't personally write a whole lot of fanfic, but I do Yuletide every year, and the first year I 'won' NaNoWriMo it was with fan fiction, so the whole panel felt rather attack-y.

So it's nice to hear people who can talk with actual education about fanfic & fandom :)
...why in the world would you put three anti-fanfic people on a panel about fanfic?

I feel like the organizers missed something rather key.

hawkwolf

3 years ago

kshandra

3 years ago

reynai

3 years ago

baron_waste

3 years ago

Inquiring minds want to know what the Neville/Padma fic is.
It is a Harry Potter AU crackfic wherein Harry was raised by goblins. Still interested?

anna_sinistra

3 years ago

seanan_mcguire

3 years ago

dormouse_in_tea

3 years ago

anna_sinistra

3 years ago

Deleted comment

seanan_mcguire

3 years ago

geekhyena

3 years ago

dormouse_in_tea

3 years ago

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
<3!
OKCupid has a lot of questions. That's how it does its sorting magic; you choose one of the answers as how you would answer, then choose at least one as how your ideal mate might answer, and the software correlates all those answers to find you likely partners. You can also write a little paragraph about each answer, in case "Yes/no/only with goats" is not nuanced enough.

The first section of this post reminds me a lot of one of those questions and my answer to it.
"Is art important to you? ( )Yes. ( )No."
My paragraph: "Art is important to you, too. If you answered 'No' here, you don't understand what art is."
What a great comparison!
Musicians do it too - not the filk you perform, but the sampling/borrowing, etc, that makes its way into pop. One of my musician friend posted this on facebook: "So I'm listening to John Legend, and his song "Save Room" pops up, and immediately I hear "Stormy" by the Classics IV and am about to cry foul to the copyright police, then a quick search reveals John Legend built his song around the original and everybody got paid."

A long discussion of other instances, authorized and not, follows, but yeah: fanfic, just with guitars.
Heh.

So much heh.

sylviamcivers

3 years ago

I didn't expect to love reading fanfic as much as I do before people started sending me curated links, but in addition to the sheer reading pleasure of it, the really good stuff helps me appreciate more about the original work. Sometimes, in fact, the fanfic saves the original media for me. (At this point, the primary reason I keep watching Glee is because I'm so addicted to a friends fanfic (and show commentary) that I need to watch the show to have context for it.)
Yes!

I didn't start thinking "Hmmm I should really watch the later Harry Potter movies" until I really started reading HP fanfic.
Um, word. Also, yeah.
Yay!
Thank you.

If you are interested in stats on AO3 toast has a good set of posts and not even 50 percent of the fic is porn
Oh, awesome.

kimberkit

July 5 2014, 16:10:32 UTC 3 years ago Edited:  July 5 2014, 16:11:49 UTC

Hah, I think the LJ just marked my comment as spam for linking to a fanfic. Oy. Here is the comment again, link-less...

OMG, fanfic love :) I mean, it's not just creators-contradicting-canon or whatever -- it's also that for some reader out there, this character took on a life of their own, and that's *awesome*.

My favorite fanfic, btw, is the AU "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality" -- where, incidentally, Hermione is *actually* a strong character that stands on her own and isn't just Harry's backup. Then again, Harry himself is really disturbing.
I love HP:MOR, but I wish it would update more often. :( I am getting really fussy waiting for the next installment!

kimberkit

3 years ago

First, let me say that I totally agree with just about everything you say, especially the part about "if you don't want to read it, don't." And the part about characters created by committee. And the part about... oh, well, just about everything.

I do have a question, though, or maybe it's just an observation. When you cite Shakespeare or the Brothers G as writing fanfic, I'm curious about how you're defining the term. It looks like you're saying that anyone who uses source material is writing fanfic, and to me that entirely loses the "fan" part of the equation. Are you saying that "fanfic" is simply "fiction which is a variation on an established story"? Or is fanfic "stories which are variations on something we love"? Because I don't know that we can really say that Shakespeare loved Holinshed or whatever his sources were for As You Like It or Midsummer's Night's Dream. He adapted stories for his plays, but surely there's a difference between adaptions and fanfic?

Maybe I'm asking because I feel as if fanfic is something more personal, something in which the writer is more deeply involved on an emotional level. I'm not really comfortable with the idea that anything with an identifiable source is fanfic. It just doesn't feel right to me, even if I can't articulate the reasons very well just now. Yes? No? Somewhere in between?
See, I'm not really comfortable with the idea that I have to have a deep emotional involvement for my fanfic to "count." I do Yuletide every year, and it's relatively rare for me to get assigned a fandom that I have a deep emotional investment in. But whatever I get, I put heart and soul into, because my recipient deserves it.

Shakespeare may not have loved the source material, but he put heart and soul into what he did. You're right that it's a little inaccurate to call his work "fanfic," since we didn't have the term then; we had not yet started putting original work on a pedestal. I do feel that all derivative work falls on the fanfic scale, and that I, as a reader, do not get to judge whether you're emotionally invested enough, and hence "worthy," to write whatever you feel like writing.

badgermirlacca

3 years ago

gement

3 years ago

djonn

3 years ago

I think most people see a difference between "authorized" and "non-authorized" works. A TV show may have many writers and each one puts his own spin on the characters - but the person who originally created those characters sold the rights to have that very thing happen. Yes, sometimes the creator is very unhappy about how it turns out - that's the risk you take when you sell it.

There's also the emotional investment (or lack thereof). Company A buys the rights to story B and then hires writers C, D and E to write new stories - there may well be no emotional attachment from those 3 new writers to those characters. It could be "strictly business" - they were hired to write some shows and they wrote them, period. IMHO Fanfic is generally thought of as being done as a labor of love, not being paid by the word. YMMV.

Being proven by time is another factor. The various stories we have today about King Arthur were written by numerous people in several countries over a long period of time, all without authorization of the originator. If I were to write a story about King Arthur today it would be just as "real" (i.e. written in yet another country and time, without authorization) as those others. But it wouldn't be ACCEPTED today as equally valid because it hasn't gotten the stamp of approval from hundreds of years of readers. So their King Arthur fanfic has been accepted as "real" after hundreds of years of being "good enough to keep re-telling". Shakespeare "rebooted" several stories, and perhaps back in his day many people might have been familiar with the older versions - but today it's only a few scholastic types that know about those older versions. Shakespeare's versions have become the baseline for most people. There was mention above that BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS was a blatent rip-off of THE MAGNIFICENT 7 - but of course TM7 was created by taking THE SEVEN SAMURAI and turning it into a western before BBTS turned it into SF.

Let me also address one other aspect: publicity. When I was first introduced to fanfic the "porn" aspect got more word-of-mouth publicity (among fans I talked to) than all other aspects put together. I don't know how much non-porn was being written back then, but all I ever seemed to hear about was the porn. Rather than the more generic term fanfic the term being used was "slash", in particular K/S (Kirk/Spock). So based JUST ON WHAT I HEARD ABOUT, it is easy for me to see how people could get the idea that that was all there was. But let's take, oh, religion. The extreme Christians get more publicity than the much larger Chistian center, the extreme Muslims likewise - hopefully we know enough not to judge those religions merely by their extremists. But people in general KNOW that the moderates are there. They may well NOT know that the equivalent "moderates" are there in fanfic - and so they DO judge based on the extremists.

It's good that you want to make people aware of the large "center" of fanfic - if the extreme edge (porn) is all people hear about, they'll still believe that's all there is.
I hope that people will gradually come to realize how big and diverse fanfic really is.
Yes, this. This, this, this.
Yay!
Since I spend "Too much damn time on Facebook" these days, it seems that my main problems with essays like
this is the lack of a "like" button...(Or if you get right down to it, a lack of a "F*ck, Yes!" button)
See, and I like the lack of a "like" button, because it means actual comments!
There are a lot of comments, so someone might have already brought this up, but my current issue in fandom and with fanfic is if you happen to ship a het pair, suddenly people are screaming at you that you're homophobic.

I understand the desire for representation, and I understand shipping people who, in canon, are not gay, as gay and in a relationship. That's awesome, and I'm glad it brings someone joy, etc.

But the fact that I don't ship a specific gay pairing does not in any way mean that I am homophobic, and I am so tired of being told it does.
I have heard people saying they encountered this, and I thus COMPLETELY BELIEVE that it happens, but I haven't encountered it myself, and I am glad. Most of my OTPs are het, just because that's how I tend to see characters who were written as het.

You are not homophobic for not liking a slash pairing. Anyone who says you are is projecting a little. There's an issue if you wander into fandom after fandom going "but what if Cecil was with a girl but what if America Chavez was with a guy but what if Steve was with a girl," but that isn't the same thing at all.

baka_kit

3 years ago

flexor

3 years ago

aiela

3 years ago

grenacia

3 years ago

ashen_key

3 years ago

aiela

3 years ago

graycardinal

3 years ago

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