Now we can cross the shifting sands.

Thank you so much for your honesty and for posting this. I am one of many people who are really glad you that made it through 2013 and look forward to your being around, happy, healthy and productive, for many years to come.

Thank you.

I have been living with depression since I was 18; I turn 50 at the end of this year. It is the enemy in my head that will never go away.

I have stood on the back deck of my house watching for the dawn, just so that I could get through one more night.

Know that you are not alone. Somedays getting out of bed is the greatest victory.

Thank you for this post.
I'm glad you're still here.

I remember crystal clear that feeling of "This hurts, and it will always hurt, and there is no way that it will never not hurt unless I go away" and while I haven't felt that way in going on 12 years, I will never forget HOW it feels.

My depression hasn't gotten that bad since, but it's never fully gone either. I too exist on lists some days. "I will just do these five things, that will be enough for today. If I can just do these five things." And I slog through the day, and face another, and sometimes I'm better and sometimes I'm not, but I have learned that there are good days, and they're worth slogging through the bad days for.

I think the hardest thing about depression is its senselessness. I don't know whether this is true for everyone, but my anxiety disorder and my OCD, both which seem to come from the same general area in my head, have thought that arise from a logical place that's gotten out of control. My anxiety and OCD make sense to me, even if the loss of control that accompanies them doesn't. (Although to be fair, my panic attacks lack the logical progression of the GAD and OCD.)

Depression, however, can sometimes make absolutely no bloody sense. There's situational depression that can arise out of sensical things, like grief. But then there's major depressive disorder, and it has no reason at all. I try to talk myself out of it like I do GAD and OCD, but because I never talked myself into it in the first place, I can't take my depression thoughts anywhere. They just stay in the vicious whirlpool where they started.

We try to make sense of it. We look at our relatively good lives and say, Yeah, I have problems, but geez, they're not that bad. I shouldn't be allowed to feel this awful until I have this much bad in my life.

One of the hardest things to do with depressive disorder is accepting that it doesn't make sense. There's nothing you did to get in, and there's probably nothing you can do to get out but just. keep. going. And when you feel like a burden to those around you and when life seems to have nothing to offer, no matter how much good comes your way, "just keep going" seems like the slogging quagmire of the century. It seems selfish to keep going, not to let go.

Like you, depression is a part of my life. A few years ago, I came out of my eight-year-long depression that included suicidal ideation, and I'm enjoying the happiness while it's here, knowing that without any warning and possibly for no reason whatsoever, the depression can always come back and sap everything good and sweet and dear about my life once again.

For me, the thing that kept me going was writing and cats. My writing needed finishing, and my cats would be devastated and wouldn't understand if I disappeared. That, and their purring helped.

I am so sorry that you had to go through that last year, and that you had to go through it alone, because it always seems to be suffered alone. It's not the kind of thing a person likes to share, because misery doesn't actually love company. No need to drag other people down in the morass with you.

Everyone talks about how depression and suicidal thoughts are so selfish, but I notice that in almost every case, the person with the disorder is the exact opposite, trying to save everyone else from their depression, trying to save everyone else from the burden. It feels selfish because you can't get away from yourself and the thoughts become so self-centered. It really is like being in a whirlpool of self without a rope. But it's not selfish.

At this point, I'm just babbling. I don't have a thesis to it. I guess if I did, I'd say that I'm sorry you had such a rough time, that it sucks that depression doesn't make sense no matter how much you try, and that it isn't selfish no matter how much it feels like it is.

I totally agree with how you describe the "just because" depression. I've been trying to explain it to some people, (in one case, a 6 hour discussion), without being able to get them to understand it. I think unless you are part of this not-very-nifty-club, you can't truly understand how alone and helpless it feels. Before I got help, it was the little things, like a small off hand comment that the person probably forgot about a minute later, but that I'm still obsessing (and freaking out over) the next day because I've built it up in a way they totally didn't mean. Even though I know (in my brain) they didn't mean it the way I've interpreted it, my heart won't let go of it, and now it's triggered a cascade of depressive emotions over everything. I never know when the trigger will be pulled, I never know what the trigger will be, and I never know how to cut it off before it gets going. I do know that it will eventually be over, if I can just keep going until then.

I think it is selfish, just because it is all about your own brain chemistry, and emotions, and can't be helped by anyone else - only you. It's selfish because it is your SELF, you are by your SELF, and only you can bring yourself out of it. I agree that it's NOT selfish if the definition of selfish is "not thinking about others",because as so many people have commented, you DO think about others and their reaction to your mood. I have been fortunate enough to not, quite, been suicidal, but it's been close sometimes.

I'm always glad to see someone writing an article or blog post about it, because they are invariably more eloquent about describing what it feels like than I am.

Thank you to Seanan, and to all who have shared their experience with this crippling disease. Please know that I feel for what you're going through, and wish I could make it better. Thank you all for still being with us, and making it a better world to be in. Please keep being here for us.

I'm glad you're here.

I've never been suicidal, but your way of describing the really bad times of depression (and anxiety, in my case) as a narrowness really resonates with me. Because it does feel like I can't see a path forward, though my solution is usually to sit down and cry*. In the end, having to just come up with tiny goals to get me moving again (like your deadlines) does help: finding a career and a long-term plan is terrifying, but saying 'I promised Mom I'd apply for this job, and the deadline is next week, so let's get it out there' is just a hand/foot-hold or two on the rock wall that gets me across the abyss.

* Or escape into books/TV/games... anything that can get my mind into a place where I am not in my life at the moment.

beautiful post, you expressed things well, and hopefully people will read it and have more of an understanding.

and the little voices? sometimes they can be so damn boring... there are better conversations out there..

For me, it was: when in doubt, logic. Not so much the logistics of doing it, but the repercussions and hassle for my family and friends afterwards. The practicalities of dealing with me, and my stuff and the finances of it that could be completely avoided if I didn't do it, and I told myself that would be more of a burden than I was alive, and it kept me from going down that path.

~hugs~ to you, and I hope 2014 is beautiful and magical and full of wonder and happiness.

Thank you for a frank and powerful post about depression. It's not easy to talk about and even less easy to deal with, and I don't have the way with words you do.

See you at Boskone.

Oh wow...do you mean to tell us that even Seanan McGuire, the indestructable badass, has such thoughts?

*boggle*

Well then--if it happens to you, I guess it could happen to anyone on earth, and I shouldn't guilt-trip myself for having 'em too. Except that I will anyhow, because that's just how it works. If there's an amount of positive self-talk or focus on gratitude or pinning the tail on your inner donkey that actually makes it go away, I have yet to find it.

I haven't been seriously suicidal since the years started beginning with a 2, but my mind does go where it will go. In my case, which may have nothing to do with yours, having a supportive family helps. Making music helps. Having found (after some disastrous trial and error)a medication that is right for my particular body chemistry has helped. Most of all, laughing at the demons and being vulgar to them has been like magic. My sense of humor can be nasty and shocking to people with good manners who don't know me well enough to understand where I'm coming from, but that laughter is usually enough to stop me from crying or screaming or puking when it gets turbulent on the inside.

Also, January tends to suck more than other months. It's dark as early in the day as ever, without even the bright colored lights of December to take the gloom off. This is the month in which I take extra Vitamin D (for Dark Day Depression) and stare at the miasma of 4:30 p.m. twilight and can say with conviction that I KNOW it will get better than this soon enough.

What I'm trying to say is--you're not alone. You will never be alone unless you go out of your way to shut the whole world out on purpose. We're everywhere, especially, as you'll see from these comments, in the subculture that tends to be your fan base. Talk to us when you need to.

And also--thank you. Thank you for staying with us long enough to get your work published. It has brought joy and catharsis and healing and creative inspiration to me and I wouldn't guess how many thousands of others. You rock. When I think of a world without Toby and Shaun and Georgia and the others---well, I laugh, so that I do not cry or scream or puke.

Your life isn't only a good life. It's a meaningful one.

(hugs available)

Thank you for being here. Thank you for writing this. Both are difficult, but appreciated.

Thank you for writing this. Depression dogs lots of people--far more people than the average person realizes or can comprehend.
When you wrote "...but that was only because I have had a lifetime of learning how to trick myself.", I realized that I do that myself. I use my garden the way you use your writing. Gotta go out and weed those flowerbeds, gotta get those seeds planted, gotta read these gardening articles and etc. All I can say is that IT WORKS.
I've read that some think now that depression is caused by an imbalance of brain chemicals and there's a theory that some depression--the sort that doesn't respond to other forms of treatment--is caused by faulty brain wiring in a certain section of the brain.
I have to wonder though how much better my life would be and how much better off our society would be if there was a truly reliable way not just to treat depression but to get rid of it once and for all time.
BTW, should you ever, EVER need a heavy-duty reason to keep on living, here's the best one I can come up with:
You may never know how many of us have turned to your books (and the books of other SCFI writers) as an escape from the misery our depression causes us. Goodness alone knows how many times as a teenager I read paperbacks alone in my room with dried tears on my face. Those stories were often the only bright spots my life had at that time.
{{{Hugs}}}

You can be depressed no matter what is happening around you, rags or riches, perfection or putridity.

Boy, is that ever the case. I don't have a great life at all. I have things I'm glad for, but overall, it sucks. I have depression too and between 2011-and late last year, my life has had assloads of stress. So I get it, and I can tell you the last thing any depressed person wants to hear, especially if like me they're broke jobless and technically homeless is "Well other have it worse, What do YOU have to be depressed about?" I hope no one has given you that speech--that's something that you don't deserve. No one with depression does.

Thank you for posting this.

I've been dealing with depression since my teens, complete with cutting and suicide ideation and attempts (both conscious and unconscious). It sucks. And the worst part (one of them, anyway) is trying to explain to people outside your head that there isn't a fucking reason, I'm just depressed, and no, I can't just stop being that way. If I could, don't you think I would?

Everyone has their coping mechanisms. Mine has always been, "If you kill yourself, 'They' win." I don't know who "They" are, but no one wins but me, damn it.

As the person who gave me the tools to save my own life more times than I can count, I am always grateful that you are here, and I love you more than I can express.

I am grateful that you stayed. I wish I could go down into the narrowing tunnel with you and knock out some walls so you could see the sky and the sun, and all the beauty that is yours, and ours, but I know that that's not something I can do. Instead, I will try to give you what you gave me, tools to beat back the tunnel walls and reclaim your space. As much as I can, every time I can, for the rest of our lives.

As someone else with a pretty good life (by anyone's yardstick) who has also suffered from depression, I am here to say: I hear you, and I have some idea of what this is like, and you are SO RIGHT about everybody deserving help and care. Always. No matter what.

I am so grateful to you for using the microphone you've built (by which I mean -- the fact that you write awesome books and therefore people pay attention to you) to say something this important and this true.

Also, I am super-glad that you were able to use your workarounds to keep yourself from suicide last year. I've never met you in person but your books have brought me more joy than I can describe.

I wish only joy for you. And if joy is in short supply, then I wish for you an abundance of coping mechanisms and people who will care for you until you can see your way clear to joy again.

I am so glad you're still here.

I was having a nasty, wracking sobs kind of day when my Wicked Girl Saving Herself tshirt arrived. I will never forget the kindness for sending it to me when I had no money. I was in what felt (feels) like a never ending spiral of unemployment, being shut out by my own kids and just...everything.

Every time I wear that shirt, I feel like I can handle life. Thank you.

*hugs* if you want them.

Speaking both as someone who has been chronically, clinically depressed to the point of an active suicide attempt, and who is now fighting for every inch and minute of life as the tide rushes away from me at insane speeds, yes...

I am glad you are here.

For my own part, I will say that when you no longer have a choice about dying soon, life can become incredibly precious.

Edit: the deleted comment was me. I had put a link in and didn't want Seanan to have to deal with un-spam-blocking it as she said she probably won't be reading the comments. Fixed it.



I don't know you. I don't know if you'll read this and I don't know if it will help but... I feel the pain in your post and wanted to post this. I've been there along with lots of other people in this post. I hope it helps. I also don't know if you're in the US or not so if you aren't some of this won't be useful. Also, this reply got really damn long! Sorry.

My husband is a suicide prevention counselor for the VA. He used to work on the Veteran's Crisis Phone Line answering calls. One of the big things they work on is the immediate threat--what can you do as a safety plan? There is a book I want to read, a show I want to see, I need to go to see my kid tomorrow, my cat will be alone, ANYTHING that creates that obligation to keep on keeping on for just a little bit longer. Learning how to do that for yourself is hard work. Being able to move past that point is even harder.

Personally I also use my cat as my safety plan. Having to get out of bed to feed him because he's standing on my chest at 6am and meowing, helps. I need to clean the box, I need to give him his medication, I need to go to the store to buy him food, etc helps. Maybe you could come up with a couple different ideas other than just your kitties? Also, I'd like to see a photo of them if you don't mind sharing! (Please don't feel obligated if you don't want to share.)

There is a Crisis Line number (for everyone). If you want to text you can do that too. Or chat with them over the internet. I know calling someone wouldn't be for me but I could maybe internet chat.

www. suicidepreventionlifeline. org or 1-800-273-TALK (8255)

The national suicide hotline group has 162 centers in all of the 50 states. Each center employs LOTS of people. Probably most people don't call the hotline. They have that large of an employment population to deal with the ones who do. You are not alone.

Thank you for writing this. The last part that you wrote is the one I still have the hardest time remembering and believing is true. However, about a year ago I was going to my doctor for my regular "are the meds working?" check, and his nurse was chatting with me as she took my stats. "So, how's the depression going?" she asks. Followed up by "So, there's no reason for your depression then?"

If I can just remember the flame of rage I felt when asked that question, I think it'll help me remember that the "reason" is my brain chemistry, and that's all I need. For whatever reason, I will frequently get myself out of major depressive episodes by getting super angry. It's probably not healthy, but I'm still here, so it's good for something, I guess.

Yep. Sometimes those flames of rage are the amazing, because it means I'm feeling something.

A couple of years ago I got confirmation that my uncle and possibly my grandfather killed themselves. I've found that since telling my GP about the family history, there are no longer any comments along the lines of "your meds seem to be working, why not go off them and see what happens?"

Gentle hugs. Thank you for sharing, even though it's hard. I hope 2014 is better & your brain cooperates more! I'm looking forward to seeing you at cons!

*hugs you SO HARD*

Thank you so much for this post. Like many of the other commenters, I've been dealing with depression since my teens. In my case, it is tied up with ADHD (and the chronic stress associated with same), which went undiagnosed until I was in my late 20s. I'm 32 now, and it has been a struggle for more than half my life, with 2013 being a rough year.

Wondering what would happen to Harry Potter helped me keep going (and now I want to find out what happens to October, in the end). So does my cat, and the kids I work with. But sometimes it feels really unfair that I'm stuck trudging through life when it seems like everyone else is happily sprinting ahead.

I understand better than I wish I did. :hugs:

Thank you. For sharing this. For still being here. For that essay on hardcopy books. For many other things.