More marginalization of women in media.: seanan

More marginalization of women in media.

I just got home from an afternoon showing of Now You See Me, chosen both because I wanted to see the movie, and because it's a swelteringly hot June day here in Northern California; we were hiding from the sun. A fun little caper movie about magicians robbing banks seemed like just the way to go. Plus, air conditioning.

I got half of what I wanted: I got air conditioning. I will be as spoiler-free as I can, but I am unhappy.

The setup of the movie is thus: four magicians, all of whom are awesome in their solo acts, are Recruited To Do Something. This isn't a spoiler; it's the premise, which leads to them teaming up and being awesome and also robbing banks and shit (all in the trailers). We have a mentalist, a classic slight-of-hand trickster, an escape artist, and a pickpocket/misdirectionist. As they start to do their shit, they are pursued by an FBI agent, an Interpol agent, a professional debunker, and a dude who got robbed.

Of the characters listed above, two are female. They never speak to each other. No, never. No, not even then. There are two secondary female characters, who also never speak to each other (one is there purely to be a pretty status symbol). The female magician is the only one who never gets an awesome moment where her field of magic, her specialization is both key to the plan and saves the day. Literally the first thing one of the other magicians says to her is "you're pretty."

YOU'RE PRETTY.

Now here's the thing: while I disagree that some roles are particularly "gendered," I can accept that right now, in our current media climate, you will want at least 75% of your romances to be between characters of opposite genders. I don't like it, but I will roll with it. And that being said, there was not a single fucking character in this movie who needed to be male. Make the smug team leader a girl, and make the ex-girlfriend an ex-boyfriend! Make the action character a girl (I basically spent every moment one of the magicians was on screen wishing he would turn into Beth Reisgraf). Make more than one important member of your team a fucking female.

And we now stand, again, at the edge of one of my biggest complaints about media today: a team with three men and one women wasn't seen as imbalanced, but the opposite team would have been. It's very possible that even a two-and-two team would have been seen as dominated by women. I am not calling for gender equality in every movie. I saw The Fast and the Furious 6 earlier this month; it was male-dominated, and it was fantastic. Not without its issues—what is?—but well-balanced, casting-wise, with multiple interesting, nuanced female characters who were allowed to interact.

When I go on these "why was so-and-so a guy" rants, someone always says "would you have this complaint if the cast were exactly gender reversed?", and I always say no. I still say no. Because there are so many male-dominated action movies and caper flicks and summer blockbusters that adding a few female-dominated examples would not be "reverse discrimination," it would be balancing the backlog. What I really want is gender neutrality. I want a team of two girls and two guys robbing banks with slight-of-hand and being awesome, rather than another movie that reduces me to a prize or a non-entity.

It's exhausting being this unhappy all the time.

The media won't let me stop.

xnbach

June 9 2013, 16:49:40 UTC 4 years ago

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I'm always amazed at what does and does not pass the Bechdel Test. For instance, Witches of Eastwick, with a mostly female cast, fails throughout the movie. Thor, about a manly god with a big hammer and brother issues, manages to pass fairly early in the film.

seanan_mcguire

July 29 2013, 15:56:10 UTC 3 years ago

And was the first movie in the MCU to do so!

liret

June 9 2013, 17:52:53 UTC 4 years ago

I really liked Henley's character and backstory in the first part of the movie - the fact that she's a talented magician who went solo because Daniel only valued her ability to fit through trap doors and wear tight costumes had so much potential for awesome. And then she kind of doesn't do anything else for the entire movie, and I couldn't understand why.

July 29 2013, 15:56:22 UTC 3 years ago

Pretty much!

hoppytoad79

June 9 2013, 19:08:10 UTC 4 years ago

Oh, gag me, that's disgusting! Cranky brunette is cranky, too!

Because there are so many male-dominated action movies and caper flicks and summer blockbusters that adding a few female-dominated examples would not be "reverse discrimination,"

Exactly. *rolls eyes* Because it's sooooooo discriminatory to have some female-dominated teams show up in movies. The attack on masculinity has begun! Testosterone will soon become illegal! [/sarcasm]

July 29 2013, 15:56:45 UTC 3 years ago

I need a nap.

silk_noir

June 9 2013, 22:23:35 UTC 4 years ago

Actually, I'd love to hear more about why you liked Fast 6.

July 29 2013, 15:57:39 UTC 3 years ago

Because it was awesome.

Because it had women and POC and WOC allowed to do things and not just be pretty.

Because it didn't try to pretend that sexism doesn't happen, thus setting it in a world that is not ours and freeing ours from the need to improve.

Because they had a tank.

jadis17

June 9 2013, 22:32:35 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for putting into words my irritation with Now You See Me. and for the recasting suggestion, I have now mentally recast Beth Reisgraf as Mark Ruffalo's character and feel that would be 2000 times more awesome, although subbing in Beth Reisgraf for any of the characters is an improvement.

July 29 2013, 15:58:05 UTC 3 years ago

I was thinking Beth for the slight-of-hand artist who has the all around the apartment fight with Mark Ruffalo's character.

spectralbovine

3 years ago

ontogenesis

June 9 2013, 22:47:48 UTC 4 years ago

Keep in mind the Academy's voting pool is still something like 80% white, older men. For all of its flaunted "open-mindedness" and liberalism, Hollywood is very geared towards conservatism when it comes to money-making. They'd rather stick to safe, tried-and-true formulas rather than "risking" a film to star many POC or a tough all female cast in an action film -- with a few exceptions. Of course, if a film with a female action lead fails, or a movie starring more than the usual POCs fails, they'll blame that factor rather than poor marketing or any other factor. Hence we get films like Avatar: the Last Airbender (rewritten to star almost all-white characters) or 21 (the card heist movie, rewritten to start almost all-white characters instead of the Asian-American leads; the one Asian character they did actually portray was a "sexy but mostly stupid" Asian female) or the white-washed Earthsea TV series (which ticked Ursula K. LeGuin off *big time.*).

However, Seanan, if you want to see a fun zombie movie where women are portrayed as equals (no fanfare, they just *are* equals), I just watched Cockneys v. Zombies at the Seattle International Film Festival, it's hilariously tongue-in-cheek, and stars a lot of older British superstars (I gathered from the Brits in the audience). Also enjoyable is that the plot centers around elderly people defending their retirement home from zombies, instead of just being helpless.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1362058/

July 29 2013, 16:03:02 UTC 3 years ago

Thanks for the tip!

mariadkins

June 9 2013, 23:56:56 UTC 4 years ago

well, there goes another movie onto my "won't see" list.

July 29 2013, 16:03:13 UTC 3 years ago

Sorry. :(

rhoda_rants

June 10 2013, 02:26:33 UTC 4 years ago

Fucking hell. Just when I thought I had enough links to include in my Gender Disparity post, which is still in progress. Now I have more to write about. So...thanks, I guess?

(Fucking hell...)

July 29 2013, 16:03:24 UTC 3 years ago

You're...welcome?

Sorry.

skelody

June 10 2013, 14:56:59 UTC 4 years ago

But I love sleight of hand and stuff! /howls in protest, hdu sexism etc etc

Although you know, when I was coping with stuff by devouring info/media about stage magic, I learned that the profession is very, very heavily male-dominated and that (sigh) the female practitioners are subject to (surpriiiiise) double standards. Which is such a damn pity, because I love the Magician archetype -- both in the fantasy-world incarnation as well as the "real world" version associated with the stage -- and because of this history (and present), the archetype is so inflexibly male. It is easy to wear an aura of power when one is privileged with power by the mere virtue of one's birth. Bah.

/ramblerant

branna

June 10 2013, 21:46:06 UTC 4 years ago

To go ever so slightly off-topic, I actually think the male-dominated nature of the Magician archetype is connected to the male-dominated nature of other archetypes as well. Science in many ways has its roots in a mixed tradition of natural philosophy and Hermetic magic and I think as a result our societal perception of its practitioners draws on many of the same archetypes.

4 years ago

princesselwen

June 10 2013, 18:55:45 UTC 4 years ago

Kind of like how superhero movies (at least the good ones), have character development and cool fight scenes, while superheroine movies (at least the ones I've heard of), just try to see how many skimpy/skin-tight outfits they can squeeze the main character into. It's really annoying. Not that superhero movies don't have occasional fanservice--but the good ones at least have an interesting story along with it. If people could do the same thing for superheroine movies, I'd be really happy. (I'd really like to see a Black Widow movie).

July 29 2013, 16:04:31 UTC 3 years ago

Sad but very true.

Pamela Adams

June 11 2013, 18:13:03 UTC 4 years ago

This isn't a spoiler; it's the premise, which leads to them teaming up and being awesome and also robbing banks and shit (all in the trailers).

I remember the same premise in The Doberman Gang, which, in 1972! had a lot more gender balance.

July 29 2013, 16:04:51 UTC 3 years ago

Most movies from the 1970s did, for some reason.

Accidental Gender Parity Repair

livejournal

June 12 2013, 17:49:45 UTC 4 years ago

User

handful_ofdust referenced to your post from Accidental Gender Parity Repair saying: [...] total lack of gender parity in Hollywood movies (http://seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com/514131.html [...]

gongxian

June 13 2013, 14:03:26 UTC 4 years ago Edited: June 13 2013, 14:29:59 UTC

Now I'm curious if you've seen Hansel and Gretel: Witch Hunters. It easily passes the Bechdel test but the good witches are pretty and the bad witches are ugly. But it had so many actresses looking like awesome 90s music video vixens I had to keep reminding myself [spoilers] not to root for the baby-eating witches. And the head witch got to come up with an evil plan and execute it with her sidekicks and firebomb a town from a broomstick in flight. The movie was pretty bad actually with anachronisms and bad acting but I'm not sure how I feel about it.

July 29 2013, 16:05:06 UTC 3 years ago

I haven't yet, but I want to.

ladytiferet

June 14 2013, 14:36:14 UTC 4 years ago

This, so much of this! (filed under 'why I love Seanan')

July 29 2013, 16:05:16 UTC 3 years ago

Jennifer Blackman Compton

June 15 2013, 16:30:12 UTC 4 years ago

I kind of wanted to see this ~ now, I'm just not sure.

I saw F&F6 and loved the scenes with Letty (Michelle Rodriguez) and the female agent. It was a real fight scene ~ not a cat fight. Loved it!

July 29 2013, 16:05:32 UTC 3 years ago

I know, right? They were hitting HARD.

digitaleopard

June 18 2013, 18:00:09 UTC 4 years ago

Adding Parker to the movie would have been awesome. I'm trying to remember the Kevin Smith movie with the all-girl sneak thief team - pretty sure it was Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back - and thinking that that was typically Kevin Smith awesomeness, and wow, why didn't more directors do this sort of thing?

Also saw NYSM, and clenched my teeth at that inane comment you noted. I think the point was to show how socially inadequate he was; great, but couldn't you come up with a different way to do that? You're here for a blind interview, as far as you know she's the one who slipped you the card - this is how you set the tone for your relationship? Argh.

As to why Hollywood does it, I suspect that 'fear' is the answer. They would rather dig up the bones of the movies that were moderately successful two+ decades ago than take a risk on an original script. Lemmings. The latest and dumbest outrage is the Highlander remake - starring Ryan Reynolds. Seriously? Have they bothered to cast Ramirez yet, when it was Connery who made the movie work? (Um, rant mode off now, sorry.)

There aren't enough badass females getting roles in hollywood movies. There never were. Howsabout a female version of 'The Expendables', starring all the female action heroes of the last 30 years? Hell, I'll pay money just to see Jenette Goldstein back in action as Vasquez...

July 29 2013, 16:06:27 UTC 3 years ago

I am tired of lemmings.

So tired.

deire

June 21 2013, 03:57:41 UTC 4 years ago

It would be wrong of me to start lighting black candles and poppets of male writers, it would be wrong of me to start lighting black candles and poppets....

July 29 2013, 16:06:41 UTC 3 years ago

And yet so, so right.

March 2 2014, 07:23:38 UTC 3 years ago

I just watched this movie and I remember you ranting about it, so here I am!

The female magician is the only one who never gets an awesome moment where her field of magic, her specialization is both key to the plan and saves the day.
THIS IS PISSING ME OFF SO MUCH. HER INTRODUCTORY SCENE MADE HER SEEM SO BADASS AND THEN SHE WAS A SEXY MAGIC LAMP.

March 2 2014, 13:48:23 UTC 3 years ago

SERIOUSLY OMG.

I was ENRAGED.

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More marginalization of women in media.

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Accidental Gender Parity Repair