Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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Growing up a girl geek and becoming a geek girl.

I became a geek when I was four years old. That's when my grandmother handed me my first My Little Pony (Cotton Candy) and told me that if I liked her, I could have more. That was also the year when I first really and truly understood that Doctor Who had an ongoing storyline that could be followed and thought about, even when the TV wasn't on. I don't remember much about the year when I was four, but I remember those two moments of epiphany.

But wait, some people would have said (and did say), as recently as three years ago: being into My Little Pony doesn't make you a geek. It makes you a girl. And to them I said, every time, that if being into My Little Pony didn't make me a geek, then they had to turn in their Transformers street cred. Science fiction and fantasy got tickets to the geek-out party, and if teleporting unicorns who live on the other side of the rainbow and fight darkness with magic and thumbs doesn't count as fantasy in your world, you are not relevant to my interests. You don't gotta like it. You do gotta admit that not only the boys' cartoons of the 1980s contained the seeds of geekdom.

He-Man? She-Ra. Both were epic fantasy adventures. The Care Bears were basically friendly aliens who just wanted us to stop blowing shit up all the damn time. The Littles lived inside your walls. How is any of this not genre? But if you asked the boys in my neighborhood, it was girly, and hence it wasn't good enough. I saw proto-geek after proto-geek give up and drop out after she'd been told, yet again, that Transformers were serious and My Little Pony was stupid. I very quickly found myself in the unenviable position of being the only girl geek in my neighborhood.

I played with the boys pretty much exclusively (after I'd beaten respect for My Little Pony through their thick skulls), at least until we got to middle school, and my being a nerd became a problem. (Note: I'm using "geek" to mean "obsessed with geeky things and very open about liking them" and "nerd" to mean "thick glasses, read constantly, did math for fun.") The boys scattered. The girls, who had been socialized that geeks were icky, wanted nothing to do with me. I nested in my interests, and waited for the world to be fair.

Then, like a shining beacon: high school. Access to conventions. Access to that new miracle, the internet. I was no longer going to be a girl geek. I was just going to be a geek! I could be interested in ANYTHING I wanted, FOREVER, and my people would understand me, because they'd been through the same thing! FOREVER!

...only My Little Pony wasn't really fantasy, because it was "too pink," and Amethyst Princess of Gemworld wasn't a real comic book, and I had to be lying when I said I loved Warren Magazines because girls don't like horror, and Stephen King? Ugh so lame. In order to be a geek, I had to conform to the shape that others defined for my geekiness, hiding the things I really loved behind a veneer of Star Trek and learning the names of all the members of the Justice League (even though I had zero fucks to give). During that period, I guess I was a "fake geek girl" in some ways, because the people I perceived as having power over me had informed me, in no uncertain terms, that loving the things I genuinely loved, following my true geeky passion down the dark corridors it so temptingly offered, would mean I wasn't a geek.

It would just mean that I was lonely.

I learned to fake it. I can name multiple incarnations of the Flash, even though I am not and never have been a DC girl. No one who's ever asked me to do this has been able to explain the entire Summers family tree, but I've known since I was fourteen that if I confused Wally West with Barry Allen, I would be decried as a faker who didn't really like comics. I learned to quote Monty Python without ever seeing the show, and made at least a stab at all the big popular epic fantasy series of the day. My geek cred was unquestioned.

And it got better. I discovered fanfic, where people were a lot more willing to tolerate whatever I wanted to get excited about, as long as I didn't expect them to read my novel-length fixfic for a Disney Channel Original Movie. My Little Ponies became "retro" and "vintage," and my collection was suddenly "ironic" in the eyes of the people I allowed to judge me. I learned to roll my eyes at moments of judgement that would previously have reduced me to snotty tears. And somewhere in the middle of all that, I stopped giving two fucks about what other people thought of my geekiness. I stopped trying to be a gender-neutral geek and became a geek girl.

But you know what? I wish I hadn't been forced to go through that particular evolution. I wish I'd been able to walk in and say "My Little Pony is as good as Transformers" without needing a sudden surge in male My Little Pony fandom to make that opinion acceptable. (I love all My Little Pony fans. Friendship is magic. But as a girl who grew up with Megan and Firefly, it really does feel a lot like "okay, girls, we've finally decided your sparkly unicorns are cool, so they qualify for membership in the genre now.")

I've been watching the "fake geek girl" mess go around, and it feels like middle school. It feels like people going "your passions don't match my passions, ergo your passions must be invalid." And I say fuck. That. Noise. Geeks like things. That's why we exist. If what someone likes is costuming, or Twilight, or SETI, or looking for Bigfoot, why the fuck should I care? If you like something enough to shape your life around it, you're a geek. Period. You do not need to prove anything. Ever.

I look at geek culture now, and we're primed to allow a whole generation of little girls to grow up without that horrible middle stage that I had to live through. But they can only have that freedom if we stop pretending that unicorns are inferior to robots, or that girls can't like zombies, or that boys can't like talking bears with hearts on their stomachs.

Now if you'll all excuse me, I'm going to go to Target and buy some Monster High dolls, which I will unbox, redress, and play with, like a boss.

LIKE A GEEK BOSS.
Tags: contemplation, cranky blonde is cranky, from mars, geekiness, so the marilyn
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I expect that has already arisen somewhere in the 77 previous comments - but have you seen the new rebooted Amethyst, by our friend Christy Marx? And if you have, what did you think...?
I saw issue 0, and got so very angry that I didn't go back.
i was a geek* before i was a goth, but i wasn't aware of subcultures per se until i hit goth. one thing the goth scene taught me was that only the very insecure fuss about the exact details of what makes you a member of a subculture. anyone who gives you shit for not having cred is themselves cred-less and attempting to create cred by judging others. (which is just sad.) so whenever i hear someone go on and on about 'what is geek?' i have to laugh because it sounds almost exactly like 'what is goth?' really? who gives a shit?

that said, go you.
-------------
* for four year old me, it was star trek and then dark shadows a year or so later.
"only the very insecure fuss about the exact details of what makes you a member of a subculture"

And now I want to carve that lovingly into a billy club, inlay it with brass, and start beating a shitload of steam punks with it.

Because the moment you start talking about what something "should be" (as opposed to what it "could be") you lose my interest. I wanna play dress-up and make pretties.

seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

Transformers are geeky?
Yup.
I like what I like. You like what you like. It's all good, and it's all permitted.
Pretty much my take on things.
*like*
I got that, too. Growing up, I was automatically excluded from geek status because I was *gasp* female. It didn't help that it was a small school, and the only geeks were a group of guys who tolerated me as the token chick for a while before excluding me altogether. Apparently Star Wars knowledge to rival Wookiepedia doesn't count if you're a girl, and neither does Lord of the Rings geekery or X-Men fandom. Being a geek just got me beat up. It meant that even in knowledge bowl, my male opponents wouldn't acknowledge that I was team captain and would only talk to the male team members and assume I was the token girl (their loss - I was the driving force on the team and we made state three times). But if it hadn't been for the internet, I would've gone crazy. I was lucky enough to find an active X-Men fan group that served as my only positive social contact from ages 12-18.

Once I got to college, it got better (though I often felt like the token geek in the LGBTAA). On the other hand, I met my partners because I was geeking out so much about a particular page of Girl Genius, I printed it off and brought it to work, where my now-boyfriend saw it and struck up a conversation about it. And I've successfully gotten him and our girlfriend interested in MLP (I never had them as a kid, but how I wanted them...), and it's nice to be able to geek out about stuff together. I am saving up so much geeky stuff for any future offspring, especially any future girls.

And I wish I could get the Monster High dolls I want - they take forever to make it to IA, and anyways, my cats chew on plastic like it's catnip. We've already got enough problems with them nomming on my boyfriend's Gundam models. I love Robecca, though. I want to do a steampunk mod of Operetta so badly...stupid lack of art skills.
I can't speak to the cat problem (I keep my MH dolls in a cabinet unless they're being played with, since our cat likes to groom doll and pony hair), but Amazon has been doing very well (at competitive price when it's actually them - $19.99-21.99) with restocks on signature and basic waves lately. I see Signature Robecca there quite often.

geekhyena

4 years ago

seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

geekhyena

4 years ago

I still have the first My Little Pony movie on the tape I taped it on, followed by a home movie of me playing as Applejack. Old school pony fans represent. [fistbump]
AWESOME,

*fistbump*
You know, there's something oddly empowering about being a second-generation geek (on both sides, mind you.) You don't worry about your geek status when your mom is DM-ing a weekly gaming session in the early 80s, when most other moms were complaining that it was Satanic, or when you find out that the book you pulled off the shelf in the back of the house—Ender's Game—is science fiction, just like the harder stuff in Analog. (I think I was nine.)

Heck, I visited my first BBS at the age of eight (under close supervision, of course.) And was on them enough to successfully impersonate an adult by the age of thirteen. (You know what the real giveaway is? Impeccable, even overly-correct grammar. An adult knows when—for example—sentence fragments are more suitable, but a youth impersonating an adult will always use the structurally correct form.) (And yes, that was also "under supervision"—the hosts, who were friends of the family, agreed to let the masquerade stand.)
Okay, you win at childhood.

thedragonweaver

4 years ago

ALL THE APPLAUSE. I hate that the traditionally "boy" shows or toy lines are OMG SO COOL, but the "girl" things don't apparently "count." Damn right they're all awesome, and everyone who likes them should be able to be proud of it!

(And fistbump for original MLP! I got into it while the show was still airing, but the toys were no longer being produced. I still wound up with a pretty big collection, thanks to my wonderful mother diligently checking thrift stores and garage sales for me, haha.)
Your mom rules.
This is the best thing I have heard anybody say on the subject.

*HUGS OF GEEK SOLIDARITY*
*hugs*
Care Bears was AWESOME.

You are a child of the 80s, yes? Because I was all about some Care Bears when I was tiny. Also Rainbow Brite and She-Ra, in addition to Ghostbusters, Transformers, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Barbie dolls, My Little Ponies (my mom used them as leverage to get me to turn in good grades and finish my chores), and Thundercats. Because they're ALL awesome.

Oddly, never felt the need to defend my geekdom to anybody. Never got the awkward stage. I think I was just clueless enough to not give a shit whether other people approved or not--not because I was too cool, but because I had no idea what other people were into. Possibly because I interacted more with my vast menagerie of imaginary friends than with other people. Still do, actually, only now I call them "characters" and write them into novels. Also possibly because I come from a long line of sci-fi geeks (grandma was a hard core Trekkie, Mom's a DC girl, Dad's a nuclear engineer with a weakness for Edgar Rice Burroughs) and can easily hold my own in weird conversations like whether or not the lightspeed in the Star Wars universe is plausible and what the fuck is going on with that "midichorians" nonsense, but mostly I didn't even think about it.
I was, indeed, a child of the 80s.
This http://ursulav.livejournal.com/1521443.html from the lovely and delicous Ursula V is oddly appropriate and I wanted to share
That is lovely.
Your post nails it. Also, Thundercats remake FTW...
Seriously.
Y'know, there are times when I'm just not articulate enough to express how amazing I think you are, and this is one of them ♥
Aw, thanks, sweetie.

acelightning

November 28 2012, 04:51:12 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  November 28 2012, 04:54:08 UTC

I had more or less the opposite problem when I was a little girl. Everybody insisted that I should like fairytale princesses, and cuddly imaginary animals, and things that were pink and frilly. Girls were required to behave that way. It caused great consternation when I showed complete lack of interest in "girly" pursuits.

Instead, I was interested in science!, which included machinery, such as rocketships. Naturally, this meant I was also interested in "science fiction" - stories about scientists doing experiments, and flying their rocketships all the way to Mars! Consternation, again; when the children's librarian caught me trying to take out a Heinlein juvie, she phoned my mother and demanded written permission from her to let me read "boys' books". (She didn't know that "Andre" Norton's real name was Alice!) Not long after that, when I idly expressed the idea that I wanted to be a scientist when I grew up, I was told in no uncertain terms that only boys could ever grow up to be scientists. And why wasn't I wearing something pink and frilly?

(The term "geek" only meant a sideshow performer of a certain type then...)
...when the children's librarian caught me trying to take out a Heinlein juvie, she phoned my mother and demanded written permission from her to let me read "boys' books".

W. T. F?! I can't even. That's just. NO!

acelightning

4 years ago

aylaelphaba

4 years ago

lianneb

4 years ago

fadethecat

4 years ago

aylaelphaba

4 years ago

lianneb

4 years ago

aylaelphaba

4 years ago

aylaelphaba

4 years ago

lianneb

4 years ago

aylaelphaba

4 years ago

I was lucky enough to start out with no fucks to give. I chalked up guys who wouldn't play with me as assholes and made my own games and my own fun. It was fairly lonely only playing with folks who'd play with me, but less damaging, I think.

I love what you wrote here and completely agree.
I often wish I'd started with fewer fucks, but you know me: I desperately want to be liked.

gwyd

4 years ago

seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

OT and squeeing madly: Cotton Candy was my first pony too!
Yay!
I suppose in some ways I was lucky. My nerdy toy of choice as a child were Barbies, which really aren't so nerdy, but were when I played with them. My Barbies were super heroes and traveled through time (in addition to having boyfriends and rivalries and other soap opera elements). When I hit that awful awkward middle period, I could admit that I had played with Barbies, but it was okay because I had done non-Barbie things with them. I imagine if I were a little younger and Strawberry Shortcake or MLP had been my thing, it would have been harder.

I do think it is getting easier for girls to own their geek cred, even with the rancid, horrible backlash that has been seen, but it's going to be some time before there's no pushback at all. My friends' middle daughter LOVES Star Wars. This shouldn't be an issue, but even she got some pushback from classmates on "Well that's a boy thing." Luckily she's got amazing parents who knew this was coming and were able to help her prepare. She owned her fandom and pushed right back at those who questioned her.

Geek Girls Represent.

(One of my nieces dressed up as a Monster High girl for Halloween, which made me think of you... :)
Geek Girls Represent FOREVER.

Deleted comment

I have faith!

aylaelphaba

November 28 2012, 12:03:13 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  November 28 2012, 12:29:01 UTC

*slow, very emphatic clap*
Yes. YES to ALL OF THIS.

...and if teleporting unicorns who live on the other side of the rainbow and fight darkness with magic and thumbs doesn't count as fantasy in your world, you are not relevant to my interests.

and also:

The Care Bears were basically friendly aliens who just wanted us to stop blowing shit up all the damn time.

I now realize I was totally a Little Mermaid geek in early grade school. I had the doll, I watched the movie TWICE IN A ROW on my fourth birthday, I got that one book Ariel the Spy, I begged my mom for the Tiger handheld video game where Ariel saves the merbabies (though, in retrospect, it's a bit disconcerting that the bad guy could trap her in a freakin' bubble and all she could do to save herself was sing for Sebastian to come help her. That's right, she's a grown mermaid who could just reach out and pop the bubble with her freakin' fingernails if nothing else, and she needs Sebastian to do it for her… but I digress).

Oh, and don't even get me started on my Sweet Valley years :-)
Oh lordie. My sister was into Sweet Valley High. However, I will say that those books got her into reading for pleasure, and she outgrew them pretty fast. She was reading back in the < #30 era. (I read one in about 15 min, and was horrified by it).

Mind you, she recently tried to read the 'ten years later' book that made a splash and was properly as horrified by it as I was.

aylaelphaba

4 years ago

seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

aylaelphaba

4 years ago

You do know that christymarx is writing the rebooted "Amethyst" for DC? I think issue 2 just came out. It's great. (She named one of the characters after my WoW hunter. Hee.)

My older brother always made fun of me (and still does) about my Star Trek geekdom. One day when I was at his house, looking at his Dallas Cowboys towel, waste basket, cups, Christmas ornaments (!), T-shirts, and so forever on, I realized that he was a geek, too: a Dallas Cowboys geek. And that everybody is a geek about something. My husband is a cooking geek unparalleled, for example. It's just taking a while for science fiction to become enough of the mainstream so it's treated like football and cooking.

I never seem to have anyone accusing me of not being a geek, but I've liked the male geek things for so long that I can out-geek most guys in those areas.
I do know!
Well said, as always.
Thank you.

weds

November 28 2012, 20:02:53 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  November 28 2012, 20:08:43 UTC

I haven't been able to form good words. There are too many emotions, and what with the excess lately, one wants to avoid collisions. But thank you.
Hugs for you, darling.
While this entire post is a thing of beauty and sparkly glitter, I think my favorite part is hiding in a single line.

"in the eyes of the people I allowed to judge me"

It's the reason that 'Fractal Butterfly' still reduces me to tears every time I hear it.

I have a self-appointed mission as 'Speaker to Costumers', where I work to get people into all aspects of costuming and cosplay and all that nifty stuff. I got sooo tired of garb-snarking and inter-genre backbiting that I started the 'Dorks Who Play Dress-Up" Facebook group. And I am constantly telling people that when someone snarks their costuming or their appearance it really says a lot more about the person SAYING it than the person they are saying it to. Or more precisely, "The kind of person who will walk up to complete strangers and criticize them...why should you give a fuck about what they think?"

So the more I see that whole "fake geek girl" thing, it seems a particularly virulent form of the "Nice Guy Syndrome" thing - the idea that someone (usually male) gets to define a woman's actions and agency. Fuck that - it's rude and kind of icky and sad. The only people whose opinion I care about are the ones I respect. Complete strangers - fuck that noise!!

It did take me a long and painful time to figure that out. But rather than demanding that other people go through the same things I did in order to gain admission to my cool club, I am determined to help make sure that other women/geeks/anyone don't have to. It's much more fun that way, and you get more people to play with
"Fractal Butterfly"? Intriguing title. Who's the author?

seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

filkferengi

4 years ago

wendyzski

4 years ago

filkferengi

4 years ago

seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

I just wanted to let you know that I saw "Feed" today in my bookstore. I live in Poland and now your book is here, too. :)
Yay!
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