Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire
  • Mood: disappointed
  • Music: Garbage, "Celebrity Skin."

Things I will not do to my characters. Ever.

Tags: cranky blonde is cranky, don't be dumb
  • Post a new comment

    Error

    Anonymous comments are disabled in this journal

    switch
    default userpic

    Your reply will be screened

    Your IP address will be recorded 

    Help
  • 985 comments
Previous
← Ctrl ← Alt
Next
Ctrl → Alt →

jennspiller

September 29 2012, 04:40:22 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for this. I agree with all you said, but I'd also like to thank you for having the imagination to come up with some OTHER SOURCES OF ANGST and conflict. Even super-powered heroines can have misery in their lives that doesn't directly relate to their sexual organs. Male characters are granted this assumption. Why not women?

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:21:17 UTC 4 years ago

I don't know.

But I wish I did.

arcaneblades

September 29 2012, 04:41:01 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for this, and I'm sorry you had to deal with someone with that kind of ramapant.... I don't even know what to call it. You write beautifully complex characters in fascinatingly heartbreaking situations without rape. That someone should question your devotion to what you write is ridiculous.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:21:27 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

nekohitori

September 29 2012, 04:43:01 UTC 4 years ago

Would you like a high-five, or a fist bump? They both come with a free hug. There are more catalysts than rape to drive a person (not only women, but men, too) to become either more vulnerable or more bad-ass. Homeboy needs to be smacked upside the head with a clue-by-four.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:21:38 UTC 4 years ago

I like free hugs!

hoppytoad79

September 29 2012, 04:49:41 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  September 29 2012, 04:50:16 UTC

And all the sane people said, "What. The. F*uck?" Disturbing, upsetting, and infuriating on so many levels. What the hell is with the attitude that a woman being 'uppity' is grounds for a rape? What is with people thinking a woman who dresses wrong or is 'stupid' enough to walk alone at night (something I have had to do on multiple occasions for reasons beyond my control) somehow deserve to be raped? What is with anyone thinking it's inevitable that ANY woman will be raped for ANY reason/imagined offense against God and nature?

"Verity is the bastard daughter of Dazzler and Batman. Toby is what happens when Tinker Bell embraces her inner bitch and starts wearing pants. Velveteen brings toys to life and uses them to fight the powers of darkness. Sarah is a hot mathematician who looks like Zooey Deschanel but is actually a hyper-evolved parasitic wasp. The unrealistic part about all these characters? Is that they haven't been raped."

I had to giggle at that, because it makes it clear how ridiculous that asshole's idea of 'unrealistic' is. I don't understand, either, why rape has to be part of a female pro/antagonist's story, because RAPE IS NOT A PLOT DEVICE!

Pauling Out

*takes a deep breath* Okay, I'm better now.

I deal with rape and sexual assault in a few of the stories I've written, and it's there only because that's how things would logically unfold based on how certain characters tick and their interactions with each other. There are plenty of strong female characters who speak their minds, walk alone after dark, and dress in 'provocative' clothing who go totally unmolested. The only thing 'wrong' the characters who are assaulted do is trusting the wrong man to act like a reasonable human being and understand 'no' means 'no'.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:22:05 UTC 4 years ago

People are weird.

muddlewait

September 29 2012, 04:49:41 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  September 29 2012, 04:56:26 UTC

Too many men have decided, and have been taught (no excuse), to expect the worst of themselves and each other. And then, to have the worst they can do indulged. Officially indulged. Formally indulged. Somehow considered inherently worthy of recognition, for God's sake! I mean, I mean... just... damn it.

We men (and boys) are asked to believe that we are and should be Beasts -- killers and diminishers of women, owners of girls, dominators of each other -- and too many of us embrace that identity, even in subtle ways, riding the centuries of momentum behind it, joining the goddamn avalanche when all it does is crush and knock down. We should be blocking. Or better, building. Or even better, helping build. I was going to say... at the very least, getting out of the way. But we need to do better than that.

Damn it, we ARE NOT MONSTERS. We DO NOT HAVE TO BE. We SHOULD NOT WANT TO BE. We're just people. Like everyone else. More of us need to act like it, and teach others to do the same.

Seanan, I can't apologize for someone else, but you deserve way better than an apology.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:22:52 UTC 4 years ago

Men are not monsters. Society does everyone a disservice by trying to teach you that you should be. Nor are women inherently victims.

How did we get locked into this dialogue?

on the internets, we're always talking about rape! And comics.

livejournal

September 29 2012, 05:11:37 UTC 4 years ago

User metaphortunate referenced to your post from on the internets, we're always talking about rape! And comics. saying: [...] McGuire's post about how she will Not Be Writing Any Of The Rape, Thank You, Horrible Entitled Fan [...]

Things I will not do to my characters. Ever.

livejournal

September 29 2012, 05:15:31 UTC 4 years ago

User hoppytoad79 referenced to your post from Things I will not do to my characters. Ever. saying: [...] Originally posted by at Things I will not do to my characters. Ever. [...]

beckyh2112

September 29 2012, 05:28:40 UTC 4 years ago

I am appalled that this man even thought such a thing, much less asked it. Because that is disturbing on so many levels.

I don't know what it says about me that I never considered one of your ladies as ever getting raped, but I am very glad to know that it will not happen in your stories. *hugs*

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:23:14 UTC 4 years ago

*hugs*

dornbeast

4 years ago

  • New comment

beckyh2112

4 years ago

  • New comment

mel_redcap

September 29 2012, 05:37:25 UTC 4 years ago

Uff da. Joining in the mass chorus of "GO YOU, SEANAN!", and also agreeing with everyone who said you handled it far, FAR better than I would have been able to.

Looks like other people have said everything I could about this asshat's obvious victim-blaming rape culture mindset, too. Damn. What a lovely, lovely person you had the pleasure of meeting, said with obvious sarcasm, and I totally adore his attempt to make you feel guilty and/or inadequate for not catering to his oppressively misogynistic kink. "Realistic" my rosy pink ass!

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:23:29 UTC 4 years ago

I don't need that kind of realism.

effervescent

September 29 2012, 05:46:39 UTC 4 years ago

You are amazing. And thank you. It's nice to know that there is a safe place to turn to among the books that I read. I'm sorry that you were asked that question in the first place.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:23:40 UTC 4 years ago

Yeah, so am I.

nancylebov

September 29 2012, 05:48:06 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  September 29 2012, 05:48:45 UTC

I'm in agreement about the wild inappropriateness of that guy making a demand that you have your characters raped, and with specific scenarios on his mind in addition. He can write his own fanfic-- or not have it.

However, what really gripes me is "I thought you had respect for your work." That is such an obnoxious effort to take over your self-respect, and would be wrong no matter what he wanted changed about your fiction.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:23:57 UTC 4 years ago

Exactly!

Just ugh.

silveraspen

September 29 2012, 06:39:17 UTC 4 years ago

Oh, my god. Thank you so much for saying this. Thank you for doing it. If I didn't already enjoy all your work (I'm reading it all anyway), I would commit to going to find it now just for this alone.

Because it doesn't HAVE to be the standard. And it SHOULDN'T be, either in fiction or in life outside the pages of books.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:24:59 UTC 4 years ago

Agreed.

julzerator

September 29 2012, 06:40:15 UTC 4 years ago

Love this so hard!

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:25:06 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

thoughtsdriftby

September 29 2012, 06:47:29 UTC 4 years ago

Thank You.

I do not want to read about rape.

If possible I would want to stamp out any instance or chance of such crime happening in real life much less in any art form.

Pehaps an answer like: Even after I pull out your brain and start using your skull as a chamber pot, the answer would still be no on adding rape to a story.
Just remember to smile nice.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:25:20 UTC 4 years ago

I am a good smiler!

Deleted comment

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:25:40 UTC 4 years ago

People feel entitled to ask some amazing crap.

azurelunatic

September 29 2012, 08:19:40 UTC 4 years ago

What the explosively mango-shitting fuck is this person's problem ACTUALLY EVEN. What. WHY. JUST. NO.

I have always had the impression of your writing that if something came up that was part of the story, you'd write it, if that were the story you were telling. Which it isn't. I respect the hell out of your artistic integrity for this decision, and articulating it so well.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:26:07 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

georgiamagnolia

September 29 2012, 08:38:24 UTC 4 years ago

Just What? I write stuff that makes me happy, thanks. (granted, some of what I write is angst filled and sometimes violent, I am writing about spies after all, and the fantasy I write is all full of dragons and death threats and impending war/end of the world/basic destruction of life as my characters know it, but no rape, thanks.) If I wanted to write about rape I'd be writing an autobiography and I am not, well I am not in as much as I am writing about spies and dragons but even that has autobiographical undertones sometimes without me realizing it, as any writing will do. BUT OH MY GODS if someone told me Venka needed to be raped to be realistic I would blast them into next week with a magic missle, or a well placed kick to the jewels at least. I am impressed that you managed not to open a can or two of hurt on the tool, On the other hand, you are much more professional than me. *very big grin* I am glad to read your philosophy on this writing topic. (squee for no triggery reading!) I wish I could say that five of my friends are safe becuase of me but the percentage of my friends that have suffered a sexual assault is much higher than one out of six (hells, the percentage in my family is higher), something I found out after I was, oddly enough, as if I was now a member of a horrifying club that we all wished we had never heard of, you know what I mean? So here's a toast to Survivors not Victims, Writers not Wankers, and Wicked Girls Saving Ourselves not Shamed into Oblivion. HAIL!

Also, I admire and adore you, in case that wasn't clear. In a totally platonic and fangirly squee kind of way. I did before, but now even more.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:26:37 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

17catherines

September 29 2012, 08:41:30 UTC 4 years ago

Oh, that is creepy. I especially like the bit about Verity wearing the wrong clothes... really fetishising the whole thing, with a strong flavour of 'women who go around on their own at night are asking for trouble'.

(or perhaps I'm seeing it more that way because of a recent case in our area where a woman was kidnapped and murdered, and the media had a wild old time speculating on why she had been walking home on her own late at night anyway...)

I'm sorry you have to deal with this sort of rubbish. And I, for one, am glad to know your books are going to remain safe for my escapist feminist self to read.

love

Catherine

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:26:51 UTC 4 years ago

Love!

soberloki

September 29 2012, 09:23:27 UTC 4 years ago

Yeah, how about NO?

I'm sick to fucking death of tough female characters' sooper sekrit tragic pasts full of abuse and rape and trauma. They can't just be chicks who know what they want, and chicks who kick ass because they felt it was the thing for them to do, and chicks who live their lives unafraid because fuck you and your rape culture bullshit, that's why. Nope, that's somehow boring, or unrealistic, or offensive to the sensibilities of readers who live in the real world, donchaknow.

Every time I read a book with a really good woman protagonist who turns out to have been a sex slave, or raped by a family member during her formative years, or pressed into prostitution by her first Twu Wuv, or kidnapped and traumatised as a kid, or or or... I just want to throw up.

I love Velveteen. She's had some mean, awful shit done to her by people who should have looked out for her and been decent mentors, but nobody's raped or molested her, and if you as her author know that she doesn't get raped, then she doesn't get raped. I love Verity and Toby and Rose, too, and their stories make perfect sense to me in their universes, and I am so relieved you chose not to use the rape trope, because it's such a cheap, flimsy, easy thing to do to a character to fake her development up some.

I am so grateful that your heroines have had their hard times, and their suffering, and their triumphs, and their joys, all unmarred by sexual assault. Thank you for writing what you write, and making the choices you make, and for sparing us all yet another depressing backstory about a woman who had to learn to beat up men to overcome her crippling fear of everything, everywhere.

There's too much of that shit in real life. WAY too much, and I'm a member of that club, though I'd rather not be. I want to read about women who kick ass just because they do, and if that's unrealistic, well fuck it, it's fantasy, isn't it?

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:27:16 UTC 4 years ago

That's what fantasy is FOR.

naamah_darling

September 29 2012, 09:42:24 UTC 4 years ago

I wish I could express how grateful I am for this. Thank you. I hope many other writers follow your example.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:27:26 UTC 4 years ago

You are very, very welcome.

acelightning

September 29 2012, 10:18:14 UTC 4 years ago

I've only read seven of your books so far (all of the existing October Daye books and Discount Armageddon), but I can't imagine you ever writing a rape, gratuitous or otherwise, into one of your stories. I'm very, very glad of that - I've been raped, twice, and I don't particularly need to read graphic depictions of such events. (It was over 45 years ago, and even at the time, it wasn't precisely a "fate worse than death", but they certainly were two of the more unpleasant things that have ever happened to me.)

The chunk of humanoid slime mold who demanded that you write rape scenes starring your female protagonists appears to have internalized some pernicious and pervasive concepts. First, the notion that men are entitled to have sex whenever the impulse strikes, and therefore the primary reason women exist is so that men can have sex with them; whether the woman wants to or not is not relevant. Second, "How DARE a sexually attractive woman be intelligent, capable, self-possessed, and strong? She deserves the Ultimate Humiliation from a man, to put her in her place!" Third, the underlying assumption that, for a woman, sex is dirty and degrading, and having sex (even voluntarily) diminishes her essential worth (this is not true of men, of course - see assumption #1, above). This cluster of beliefs is, I think, the core of "rape culture"... and why are we even talking about it in the 21st century, anyway?

I hope whoever said that to you has, by now, figured out just how UNwelcome he and his suggestions/demands are.

Off-topic: I only know of one other fictional character named Antimony...

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:27:58 UTC 4 years ago

I hope so, too.

And I love Gunnerkrigg Court!

acelightning

4 years ago

  • New comment

groblek

4 years ago

  • New comment

acelightning

4 years ago

  • New comment

seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

  • New comment

acelightning

4 years ago

  • New comment

notalwaysweak

September 29 2012, 12:00:03 UTC 4 years ago

I never thought of it in terms of five of my friends being safe before. It's a nice way to think about it.

Hopefully the person who said this to you either lives in or comes to Australia, because then I can unleash the... well, I have a fine selection of things I can unleash, as you know, but I think I'd like to start with a platypus or two, because they distract you by being all adorable and then BAM VENOMOUS SPURS. You know, like certain female characters who don't look threatening and then BAM STEEL-TIPPED HEELS.

*hugs and love* Thank you for this post, and for your amazing stories, and for your kickarse women. The thought had honestly never crossed my mind that you would ever do that to any of your characters, mostly because you have such marvellously inventive awful things to do to them without it (as my desktop image of the In Sea-Salt Tears cover reminds me).

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:28:34 UTC 4 years ago

Australia would love to have the chance to eat this dude, I'm sure.

Thank you for being here. The world is richer for your presence.

notalwaysweak

4 years ago

  • New comment

ktsparrow

September 29 2012, 12:22:31 UTC 4 years ago

What a creepo, really. (I mean the dude who asked the question.) As though the world needs every protag raped? Ugh. Deeper, I think, is the assumption that every woman is rapable when she is acting empowered/doing what she wants/not living in fear. As though there are categories of women who's actions make them vulnerable to rape, rather than the threat being universal because of rapists. I guess what I mean is the old idea that rape is caused by the person who was raped, rather than the rapist. Variation on the tired theme or she was wearing a tight dress and asked for it. Ugh.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:28:46 UTC 4 years ago

It's pretty horrid.

digitaleopard

September 29 2012, 12:55:14 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  September 29 2012, 17:26:27 UTC

When are you going to authorize hits on people who display this level of stupid?

...on reflection, I feel the need to expand on this.

If I do a google search for "seanan mcguire ya fiction", the first three hits all implicitly or explicitly state that some of what you write is intended as YA, or marketed as such. Based on the definition of YA fiction, some of your intended readership is twelve. ANYbody who has read more than one of your novels should know this; one of the meta features of your female characters is that you're clearly trying to make them role models for young readers.

So his question was totally inappropriate, in addition to the stupid. And the way he phrased it makes me wish you could sic Sarah on him.

Also, that one-in-six number? To my mind, that number reflects a flaw in the universe. *This* universe - Not any of yours. One of the random happy thoughts I had while reading 'Feed' the first time was that whatever else Kellis-Amberlee did to the world, the fact that people would now be armed the vast majority of the time should cut WAY down on rape. Yay silver lining!

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:29:24 UTC 4 years ago

Which is fascinating to me, because I haven't published any YA yet. Since I'm clearly a horribly successful YA author, why can't I sell Clady?

phoenix_singing

September 29 2012, 13:50:25 UTC 4 years ago

*sigh* I wish I could say I'm surprised that some asshole man thinks a woman has to be raped to be believable and realistic. I'm horrified, I'm disgusted, I'm more than a little disturbed that there's a man walking around on the planet who seems to believe it is women's destiny to be raped...but sadly, I'm not surprised. :-/

I love your worlds because they're one of the extremely few places where women are badass without being made that way by sexual assault. Rape, assault, misogyny - Jesus H. Christ, we see enough of that shit on a daily basis, we're taught to fear it from childhood, we grow up being taught all the things we have to do and not do lest we get raped (which is sickening - how about teaching boys not to rape instead of girls not to "invite" it? Fucking rape culture). The lack of rape and sexual assault and women being denigrated for being women, and the way you find so many other ways to develop your women, is a huge part of why your work captures me the way it does.

Nnnggggh. Could go on about this forever but I'll stop here. I do want to say thank you for this, and thank you for stretching past tired tropes and making other ways to develop your female characters, and I am so sorry you had to deal with a shitstain like that. Dude needs a big schooling, and possibly a hard kick in a tender place.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:29:53 UTC 4 years ago

I wish I was surprised, too.

Instead I will just be glad that you are here.
Previous
← Ctrl ← Alt
Next
Ctrl → Alt →