Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire
  • Mood: disappointed
  • Music: Garbage, "Celebrity Skin."

Things I will not do to my characters. Ever.

Tags: cranky blonde is cranky, don't be dumb
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kveberle

September 29 2012, 00:19:30 UTC 4 years ago

This person makes me so angry. I bet he has never sat in the rape exam room with a victim trying to help her through the exam...trying to tell her that she will be able to get back to her normal life...eventually. I have...that's what I did all afternoon. How can anyone say that something like this must be included? Are you supposed to be showing women the consequences of going beyond "their place?" Losing coherence I'm so angry....

Thanks for posting this and for your position on it.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:00:12 UTC 4 years ago

Deep breaths. He will have no power here.

I have a stick.

PS

fayanora

September 29 2012, 00:25:41 UTC 4 years ago

I also wanted to note, in writing Nokwahl's attack, I was careful to not make it very graphic. I don't like reading about rapes, and I think the only reason I was able to bring myself to write about it was because Nokwahl's attacker was not successful on that score.

The only time I felt a rape in literature was justified was in The Neanderthal Parallax. One of the main characters got raped in the first book, and didn't know that her attacker was a colleague. She was too scared to report it. But she later told her friend, the Neanderthal scientist from the alternate universe. She convinced him not to report it to the authorities, so he took matters into his own hands. In his culture, violent crimes are punishable by forced sterilization of the attacker. He used his sense of smell to figure out who the attacker was, hunted him down, then broke into his house and castrated the guy and anally raped him to give him a taste of his own medicine. Since I love it when bad guys get poetic justice, I'm afraid this made me laugh until I literally fell out of bed.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:00:45 UTC 4 years ago

I am glad to have the warning about that book. I will not read it.

dewline

4 years ago

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hsumi

September 29 2012, 00:39:44 UTC 4 years ago

I will admit to never having read your books (I was, in fact, linked here via Plurk), but I couldn't agree more with the sentiment. Kudos to you, Seanan.

P.S., I do believe I have some books to look into now.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:01:01 UTC 4 years ago

Enjoy them!

dragonsally

September 29 2012, 00:40:36 UTC 4 years ago

WTF? I don't want to read about rapes in books I use to distract myself from the world. I can'tunderstand why someone would even thinik like your questioner does and I am beyond glad that you won't write this way.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:01:17 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

bookblather

September 29 2012, 00:42:41 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  September 29 2012, 00:45:19 UTC

This. I do not write rape or sexual assault. I don't care if it's "realistic," I don't want it to be, I don't want to relive it, and I will not write it, period.

Thank you for writing this.

eta: permission to link? I saw it granted to the one gentleman but I wasn't sure if it was a one-time thing.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:01:32 UTC 4 years ago

Permission always granted for public entries.

airawyn

September 29 2012, 00:48:29 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you. Thank you so much and please never change your mind on this. I am sick of reading stories where the female characters (it's rarely the male ones) are raped, threatened with rape or have sexual violence as their main motivation to become heroes. Statistically, it may be realistic. A small percentage of these stories may even be empowering. Most are exploitive, misogynistic and just plain shit. Not to mention unoriginal.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:01:47 UTC 4 years ago

I promise, I won't be changing my mind.

mariadkins

September 29 2012, 00:51:46 UTC 4 years ago

:applause:

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:01:57 UTC 4 years ago

*hugs*

mariadkins

September 29 2012, 00:52:23 UTC 4 years ago

shared on my facebook fanpage. :)

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:02:03 UTC 4 years ago

Ta.

gemdol

September 29 2012, 01:02:02 UTC 4 years ago

Like you, I cannot fathom why someone would think that rape is something that had to happen, the inevitability of it. And also like you, I don't want to get it. And I don't want to comment too much on the flabbergasting nature of the woman you corresponded with, but I do want to say that not doing so (having one of your characters get raped), in no way, shape or form, makes your work unrealistic. If anything, it makes your work more realistic, because as every (good) writer knows (which you most assuredly are) after a while, you're only doing what your characters tell you to anyway.

I just kind of wanted to show my support of your post and your words and reasoning.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:09:30 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

B.e. Sanderson

September 29 2012, 01:20:36 UTC 4 years ago

I tried to comment like a rational person on this, but I'm stuck at 'WTF???'

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:09:42 UTC 4 years ago

I fully understand.

deakat

September 29 2012, 01:41:54 UTC 4 years ago

I hadn't thought about it before, but knowing you're not going to do that to your characters makes me so very happy. Thank you!

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:09:51 UTC 4 years ago

Very welcome.

vincentursus

September 29 2012, 01:50:12 UTC 4 years ago

I occaisionally encounter people whose underlying assumptions are so different than mine that they seem to be living in a different world than I am. This is usually confusing, sometimes charming, and rarely (fortunately) horrifying.

I do not wish for any greater understanding of, or empathy with your questions.

I feel your response is fully appropriate and to be encouraged.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:10:05 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

musedmoose

September 29 2012, 02:06:08 UTC 4 years ago

I was going to write a whole lot more, but it's rude to rant in someone else's journal, so I'll stick with this: this whole thing makes me sick, and if a reader ever asked me the same thing, I'd politely request they go fuck themselves and tell them I didn't want them as a reader. I, too, write female protagonists with superhuman abilities, so I'm with you on being baffled that someone could expect these women would be raped despite the myriad ways they could defend themselves. I don't want to write rape either - a plot-essential scene of attempted rape I wrote years and years ago was one of the hardest things I've ever done - and I'd only do it if there was no other possible way for the story to happen. And I sure as hell don't see that happening. Ever.

Having said all that, your characters sound really interesting and now I have to go look up your books. ^_^

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:10:18 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

lysystratae

September 29 2012, 02:21:29 UTC 4 years ago

If that's unrealistic, I don't ever want you to be realistic.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:10:27 UTC 4 years ago

Neither do I.

dewline

September 29 2012, 02:21:44 UTC 4 years ago

Some people...I just don't get it.

I've read stories where that crime's a plot point. Mostly crime/mystery novels, and the occasional comic book in the same genre. And sooner later with TV crime dramas, the ground gets covered there once or twice, even when - as in most cases - the series isn't an SVU-type premise from the beginning.

Some of that stuff's still in my library, I admit.

Doesn't mean it's inevitable. Or should be.

For anyone. Real or fictional.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't set the rules of your 'verses as you see fit either. Because you should. Change the rules or not in whatever ways you might choose to down the road, they're still your 'verses to set or change rules for. Or not.

Apologies if this isn't the best phrased statement of sympathy...

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 16:10:55 UTC 4 years ago

No, it's beautifully phrased. No apologies needed.

linkspam is afraid of the new tv season

livejournal

September 29 2012, 02:57:19 UTC 4 years ago

User cofax7 referenced to your post from linkspam is afraid of the new tv season saying: [...] Speaking of writing, Seanan McGuire refuses to write her female characters being raped. [...]

annathepiper

September 29 2012, 03:25:15 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for this, from the bottom of my heart, as both a reader and a writer.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:18:45 UTC 4 years ago

You are very welcome.

gwyd

September 29 2012, 03:26:32 UTC 4 years ago

I have huge respect for you both as a person and a writer. This post makes me respect you even more. May I add a hell yeah!

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:18:55 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you!

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seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:19:15 UTC 4 years ago

She does pretty good at getting through things without rape, really.

alicetheowl

September 29 2012, 03:43:54 UTC 4 years ago

That's one of the things I really like about your books. Your characters have plenty of challenges without worrying about that, too. I wrote a blog post a few months back about how much I hate reading about rape. It's rarely done well, it makes me uncomfortable, and it usually boils down to lazy storytelling. ("She needs character development. I know! Rape!")

Also, the number of times it's described in nearly the same terms as sex is more than I can count, and that's creepy and gross.

One of the things you didn't mention in your post is that consent between your characters is rather cut-and-dried, too. The "she secretly wants it but says no and he pushes her boundaries and she likes it" thing bothers me. People don't read minds, unless they're hyper-evolved parasitic wasps. As the reader, we know what she means when she says no, but how does the guy?

lederhosen

September 29 2012, 04:37:42 UTC 4 years ago

It's rarely done well, it makes me uncomfortable, and it usually boils down to lazy storytelling.

This. I don't have a problem with authors who include rape because they actually have something to say about rape. I might decide it was depressing and not what I wanted to read, but that's not a criticism per se.

But IME, maybe 5% of rape in fiction falls into that category. Most of it is authors who need fodder for a "kick the puppy" moment, or to establish that Generic Thugs Are Thugs, or titillation.

alicetheowl

4 years ago

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lederhosen

4 years ago

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alicetheowl

4 years ago

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lederhosen

4 years ago

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alicetheowl

4 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

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alicetheowl

4 years ago

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chomiji

September 29 2012, 03:44:57 UTC 4 years ago


Like several others who have commented here, I have not yet read any of your books - but this post definitely makes me want to do so! I'm off to add some things to my Amazon wish list.


seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:20:14 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

amusingmuse

September 29 2012, 03:54:40 UTC 4 years ago

Like everyone else, I'm appalled. Finally? Finally? I was rather relieved there wasn't any in the DA.

I want to scream.

This is exactly why I gave up RPG. The last game I played in within ten minutes of a new game with a new GM my character was raped. When I protested, I was told, that's what you get for choosing a female adventurer. I was stunned and mad. It's been nearly a decade and I'm still hissing over it. That's what you get....for choosing female...and adventuring.

mel_redcap

September 29 2012, 05:29:24 UTC 4 years ago

O_o;;

...okay, that would get the so-called GM and any of the players who didn't join in the protest right off my "want to do anything with, ever" list and onto my "avoid like the scum they are" list. Also, I would tell every woman I knew about his misogynistic, victim-blaming, rape-fetishist asshattery, so they were warned. Writing rape, or wanting to read about it, because the female character is 'asking for it' or otherwise needs to be brought down a peg? That's nasty and wrong and says a lot about the person doing it. Informing a female roleplayer that her female character, who represents her in the game, is being raped because she's guilty of 'adventuring while female'? That's rape fantasy by proxy. That's the asshole GM telling you exactly what he thinks any woman who 'steps out of place' deserves. UGH.

*seethes*

...Sorry. That, um, hit a nerve. Speaking as a long-time RPG player and ex-GM, I apologise on behalf of everyone ever, because damn.

amusingmuse

4 years ago

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groblek

4 years ago

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More Expand

Fiction & Rape

livejournal

September 29 2012, 03:58:02 UTC 4 years ago

User chomiji referenced to your post from Fiction & Rape saying: [...] There's something Seanan McGuire refuses to do to her characters [...]

stina_leicht

September 29 2012, 04:03:04 UTC 4 years ago

Go. You. :)

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:20:44 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

Elizabeth Peterson

September 29 2012, 04:10:44 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for this. There are words I could use to respond to the imbecilic nature of this questioner... but they're all angry profane things best said with a tire iron.

As someone already mentioned, 14 years in a pond transformed into an animal that couldn't even recognize itself as human/fae is more than enough of an assault without it being sexual, and Tobes is always getting nearly killed, so someone wanting to see a rape in fiction is just creeptastic.

seanan_mcguire

September 30 2012, 17:20:56 UTC 4 years ago

Agreed.
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