Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire
  • Mood: disappointed
  • Music: Garbage, "Celebrity Skin."

Things I will not do to my characters. Ever.

Tags: cranky blonde is cranky, don't be dumb
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elliemurasaki

September 28 2012, 17:11:59 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  September 28 2012, 17:14:06 UTC

*applause*

Rosemary and Rue sounds relevant to my interests, actually. TO THE LIBRARY! (linked here, obviously)

seanan_mcguire

September 28 2012, 23:40:21 UTC 4 years ago

Hooray the library!

cluegirl

September 28 2012, 17:12:30 UTC 4 years ago

At Arisia, we often do a Sexual Assault and Rape Tropes in Fantasy and Science Fiction panel. I've been on it several times now, and the way I like to put it is that if you wouldn't do it to a male character, in those exact circumstances, then you should question just why you feel you need to do it to a female character. And then you should question it again, more deeply. And then you should probably think better of your plan, and write something else.

Could you replace that random rape scene with a random baseball scene and have it make about as much sense to the narrative of your story? Then you're probably Doing It Wrong. (GRRM and HBO, I'm lookin at you here.)

Anyhow. All a lot of words to say, essentially, "Word."

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:33:14 UTC 4 years ago

I kinda want random baseball scenes now.

taldragon

4 years ago

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drcpunk

4 years ago

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sweetmusic_27

4 years ago

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anderyn

September 28 2012, 17:15:24 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for this. While I can *read* a rape scene if it's done with care and due respect for the story that the author wants to tell (ie, Deerskin and the like), I get triggered easily by visually and or skeevy depictions of same, and don't even get me started on visual media and rape. So I respect that you don't want to write it and that it's not on the table for your characters. While I have been a fan for a while, this just cements that, because... yeah. I like (often) to know that some elements are off the table so I can just sit back and enjoy the story.

Again, thank you. And *shudders* -- I hope that this person who asked that wises up.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:33:25 UTC 4 years ago

You are very welcome.

dr_zrfq

September 28 2012, 17:21:37 UTC 4 years ago

Perhaps there might be an *attempted* rape, if (and ONLY if) it would advance the plot. It would be entertaining to watch the attempt turn into an Epic Fail. But only if you want to write the attempt, and it would need to advance the plot... but you knew that.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:33:36 UTC 4 years ago

I did. :)

museclio

September 28 2012, 17:23:33 UTC 4 years ago

Seriously, the victim-blamingness inherent is saying that Toby will get raped because she's cocky, or Verity will be raped for dressing insufficiently modestly says a hell of a fucking lot about what this person thinks about women, and what this person thinks about rape. Pro-tip This person is wrong.

Interestingly, I don't think you specified the person's gender. I'm seeing a lot of assumption of it having been a man. I'm not sure that a safe assumption. Women self-police, and can say this sort of shit too.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:33:54 UTC 4 years ago

It was a man, in this case, but you're absolutely right.

supergasnojutsu

September 28 2012, 17:34:29 UTC 4 years ago

I think that rape can be used well in a novel depending on the topic, the message, and the execution. "Speak," a children's novel by Laurie Halse Anderson, is a really great example of that. It's definitely an issue that should be discussed and fiction writing has always been one of those amazing mediums where you can talk about anything and reach lots of people. With that said, I share your frustrations with how women are constantly being placed in sexually compromising situations. For example, I enjoyed "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" for the most part but it really disturbed me the borderline fetishistic way sex and rape were used in the books. I have made a conscious decision not to read the next two books specifically because I've read the plots and it just seems to take my suspicions to the next level.

There are situations where rape would be a reasonable concern for a character. If you were writing a book about a female WWII POW, for example, that is a genuine concern. If you are writing about your protagonist walking down the street alone that might be a concern, as all women have been taught to think that, but millions of women walk down the street alone in large cities every day and don't get raped. You are right in defending your stance. It is not inevitable that this woman will be raped. It's not unrealistic to decide she will never be raped. And honestly, I would be perfectly content if I never have to read another novel in which the female protagonist is raped simply because she needed to be placed in a dangerous situation. Lots of heroes end up in danger and fight their way out. They don't get violently penetrated.

And also, what kind of person asks the question "when will he/she finally be raped?" Geez.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:35:11 UTC 4 years ago

Oh, absolutely. If I were writing about a female WWII POW, I would have to seriously question why I had made that choice, simply because of my policy on writing rape. And if rape were truly necessary to the story, because of the setting...I probably wouldn't write that story.

thedragonweaver

4 years ago

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docpockets

September 28 2012, 17:36:36 UTC 4 years ago

As a person who has read and enjoyed many of your books I don't have any expectations or demands on you as an author, only a request that you keep writing what you like to write. As a human being who has occasionally hung out with you I don't have expectations or demands on how you should act or live your life, only a request that you observe the golden rule. As a husband and father I applaud your stance and hope that others in the story industry take similar stances. As a friend I, and lot of others, have your back.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:40:29 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

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seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:40:59 UTC 4 years ago

No: not every male is a rapist, by a long shot. And you are always welcome here.

kassrachel

September 28 2012, 17:40:55 UTC 4 years ago

What the fucking fuck.

Three cheers for you, and a thousand facepalms for the moron who entered into this line of inquiry.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:41:07 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

juliansinger

September 28 2012, 17:42:10 UTC 4 years ago

One of the MANY reasons I stopped reading mainstream comics was that apparently, the vast majority of the writers/editors couldn't figure out how to develop a female character except via rape.

People can develop via /many methods/. Honest and for true.

Which is to say: Thank you.

(I mean, in theory I don't mind /some/ characters being raped (in ways that illuminate them and the world around them) because, well, rape happens, but it's become the lazy fallback mechanism in fiction, so I'm /very tired of it/. And aside from that, for your interlocutor to make it into a /political requirement/... is bothersome.)

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:41:27 UTC 4 years ago

You are very welcome.

seawasp

September 28 2012, 17:44:04 UTC 4 years ago

UNREALISTIC??? It's MORE REALISTIC that the more badass and successful a woman is, the MORE likely they'll be raped? WTF?

(by the way... "bastard daughter of Dazzler and the Batman" will now be stuck in my head for the next several days)


Bravo. I have never had any female characters (or male characters, for that matter) get raped. In the books I foresee myself writing/publishing in the future (which are quite a few) I foresee exactly one (1) instance where that will be attempted, but will not be successful. I don't write rape, and I sure as HELL don't think it's something NORMAL.

dewline

September 28 2012, 20:57:30 UTC 4 years ago

Stuck in mine for at least the next month!

Not a complaint!

Comments on the main point of this thread to follow under separate cover.

seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

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midnightblooms

September 28 2012, 17:48:32 UTC 4 years ago

What?! This just makes me....I can't even....GAAAAAAH! FLAMES, flames out the side of my head *stabbity stabbity stab*

Why would you even ask this? What kind of asshole would ask that? Would THINK that?

Thank you for being a writer I trust, not only to write scenes that are fitting to the plot and actions/reactions that are accurate to the characters, but to treat your writing and creations with dignity even when your characters are suffering and struggling.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:42:04 UTC 4 years ago

You are very welcome.

scottakennedy

September 28 2012, 17:49:39 UTC 4 years ago

Thanks so much for this post. A jaw-droppingly stupid question meets a superb response.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:42:16 UTC 4 years ago

I try. :)

Are You Thinking About Doing This To Your Female Characters?

livejournal

September 28 2012, 17:50:54 UTC 4 years ago

User silk_noir referenced to your post from Are You Thinking About Doing This To Your Female Characters? saying: [...] Originally posted by at Things I will not do to my characters. Ever. [...]

mneme

September 28 2012, 17:58:13 UTC 4 years ago

*applause*

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:42:32 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

catalana

September 28 2012, 17:59:27 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you. I've already been the statistic - I don't need it gratuitously in my fiction. (When it's necessary, yes. If you're writing about war and atrocities, there's a good chance it will involve rape because that's the kind of fucked-up world we have. But we don't need it there just for the hell of it. Which it is, actually: hell. Not fun backstory color.)

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:42:47 UTC 4 years ago

Yes. This.

pameladean

September 28 2012, 18:00:14 UTC 4 years ago

You are my hero.

I won't say what your interlocutor is. But agh, it's not bad enough to ask when your characters will "finally" be raped, oh no; when you ask under what circumstances that might happen, you get a list of victim-blaming tactics so classic, so unimaginative, that I don't even know why the reader reads your books, since obviously the taste exhibited is for cliche and stereotype and nonsense.

P.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:42:57 UTC 4 years ago

You are my hero, too.

lyssabard

September 28 2012, 18:05:56 UTC 4 years ago

Everyone has reiterated in some form my *headsplody*FINALLYEXPECTINEVITABLYREALISTICWTFFUCKERYHUH!?*headsplody* reactions.
The kindest thing I can say is that such expectations come from years of bad writing and cultural images where trauma to female protagonist = rape. But...it...so much else to unpack there. I mean, maybe no one ever unpacked that trunk for that person? (This is me trying very hard to be understanding.)

No. Just...no. To all of it.

I am still just floored you got asked that.
And I hope you are ok, because it's just disturbing on many levels.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:43:12 UTC 4 years ago

I am fine.

Annoyed, but fine.

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seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 00:43:26 UTC 4 years ago

Ugh.

I am sorry, honey.

trialia

4 years ago

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controuble

September 28 2012, 18:10:07 UTC 4 years ago

That person's attitude is a major part of what's wrong with the world these days.

Thank you for this awesome response. I like the worlds you write ever so much better than the one I am stuck living in.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 05:30:04 UTC 4 years ago

I do, too.

cbpotts

September 28 2012, 18:16:44 UTC 4 years ago

Remember that bit where PW said you were shattering the misogynistic tropes of the horror genre? THIS IS WHAT THAT MEANS. And I, for one, thank you for it.

Mainly, I'm a Toby fan-girl. And she has been through so much - so very very much that sometimes I have to put the book down and just cry for her, if nothing else beyond what she's lost with her daughter and what she has had to do for her daughter (I hope that makes sense without being spoiler girl) - and I am sure that the road ahead isn't necessarily any easier at all - but the thought that she *has to* get raped, like it's some kind of obligatory level of a female-specific hell - makes me rage with more rage than I can even explain. It's WTF pie with WTF whipped cream and a WTF cherry on top.

Thank you for being a trope shatterer. Keep on shattering.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 05:30:17 UTC 4 years ago

I like shattering misogynistic tropes.

weds

September 28 2012, 18:18:19 UTC 4 years ago

Bloody hell that person. (At first, there was going to be a comma there, and then there wasn't, and that was okay too.)

I'm going over here with dolls and a comb and stuff. Fucking outside world.

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 05:30:41 UTC 4 years ago

I think that is a good place to be.

You are welcome to come over and play dolls with me anytime.

oneminutemonkey

September 28 2012, 18:22:55 UTC 4 years ago

The day you rape a character is the day I lose all faith in you as a storyteller and a person. Thanks for making it up-front and clear that you won't stand for this sort of shit.
I hate rape as a concept, as a plot device, as a -thing- and I just can't even see a way in which it's necessary for a story. (Okay, not true: I could imagine plots where it might make sense... and I don't like 'em much at all.)
It killed Patricia Briggs' Mercy Thompson series for me when she pulled that-it took me a few books to grow disenchanted, but that's where I started pulling away.
It's certainly not something I want to see in my happy fun time books. So keep up the hard line so I can always think of your stuff as happy fun time. (Yes, even the zombies. They can be happy fun time zombies.)

moonwolf1988

September 28 2012, 19:40:18 UTC 4 years ago

I'm with you entirely on the Mercy Thompson series. It didn't seem to add anything at all to the storyline, although I did like learning a little more about Ben (it could have been done differently though, especially considering what he'd already been through), and since then I've lost all my love for the books, which irritates me because Mercy was one of my favourite characters.

seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

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Charles Ellis

September 28 2012, 18:36:55 UTC 4 years ago

What I'm curious about is how did someone so invested in the way things are 'supposed to happen' get all the way through Discount Armageddon in the first place? Or did they?

seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 05:31:57 UTC 4 years ago

They did! I am...a little disturbed.

Charles Ellis

4 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

September 29 2012, 05:32:06 UTC 4 years ago

Agreed.
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