Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire
  • Mood: disappointed
  • Music: Garbage, "Celebrity Skin."

Things I will not do to my characters. Ever.

Tags: cranky blonde is cranky, don't be dumb
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andartha

November 1 2012, 08:05:18 UTC 4 years ago

I think that, whoever wanted your characters to get raped, is plenty misogynistic and has a rape-fetish and all that hollering on about how it was unrealistic if they didn't get raped was just a smoke-screen to cover his very personal desire to see one of his personal fantasies written out (and thus officially condoned, so they could get their dirty little fantasy AND feel justified / vindicated about it too).

seanan_mcguire

November 27 2012, 17:58:58 UTC 4 years ago

Unfortunately, I think you're correct.

NaNo updates (plus a bonus rant)

livejournal

November 5 2012, 17:18:02 UTC 4 years ago

User ladyhadhafang referenced to your post from NaNo updates (plus a bonus rant) saying: [...] talk about it:  Basically, this post ("Things I Will Not Do To My Characters. Ever." [...]

darth_eldritch

November 5 2012, 18:05:09 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for writing this. I had myself come to the same decision years ago. I'm not going to have my main female characters raped, because I see no reason for them to be raped. It's not needed for character development, it's not needed for the story I want to write. It serves no useful purpose at all.

There are characters, and even twisted cultures, in the background of my universe, who do have a rape mentality, but that still does not justify "inevitable rape." Some of my female characters have very active sex lives, and that is no reason to subject them to rape, as many other reasons such as women being alone, or wearing "provocative" clothes...

There is too much rape in fiction as it is, even the good stuff. The Deed of Paksenarrion, the Fifth Millennium series. I have even walked away from RPGs that feature rape. Too many males are fascinated by it. I see no reason to feed into it. I've seen too much interest in it from even women. That's disturbing.

It's a wonderful feeling to play a female in a fandom that has very little rape in it. Star Wars, the Elder Scrolls. Sure there is a hint of it in an odd corner or two, but there is no running theme of it. Not like what poor Lara Croft has to face.

Anyways, thank you again for writing this. I cannot say how refreshing it is to see this openly said.

ladyhadhafang

November 6 2012, 02:37:44 UTC 4 years ago

Some of my female characters have very active sex lives, and that is no reason to subject them to rape, as many other reasons such as women being alone, or wearing "provocative" clothes...

That sentence jumped out at me if only because that really struck me; I've always been really disturbed at the mentality that goes on in regards to slutshaming. The whole degrading a woman just because she wears provocative clothes or what have you, because that doesn't matter. No one deserves to be raped. No one. Unfortunately, I doubt that most of society seems to get it.

By the way, I actually recall the web series Bad Movie Beatdown doing an episode that included that subject -- basically, in his review of THE CAVERN...well, the movie ends with the monster killing one of the women and proceeding to rape the other, by which point the movie ends. I think Film Brain's comment is very apt here; to paraphrase, you have to consider the weight and seriousness of including a rape scene in your work of fiction, and not use it for shock value. I definitely know that the poor man went over the edge in terms of anger level on that one, and considering his previous beat down of the movie for unlikeable characters, bad cinematography, etc.,...yeah.

But I think it ties into the point nicely: you have to treat the subject of rape with respect. Does it move the story along in any way? If no, don't include it.

*Prays she made sense*

darth_eldritch

4 years ago

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ladyhadhafang

4 years ago

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darth_eldritch

4 years ago

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ladyhadhafang

4 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

4 years ago

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denelian

November 18 2012, 23:38:05 UTC 4 years ago

THANK YOU.


because - yes, there are good [for certain given values of "good"] stories that can be mined there. [Patricia Briggs, for example - i swear, reading that, and dealing with it on the part of Mercy was as good for me as a YEAR of therapy/EMDR]
but it's not always necessary. and to be honest, one of the reasons i LIKE Urban Fantasy? is the fantasy ideal of being SO STRONG AND POWERFUL THAT IT WON'T HAPPEN TO ME [AGAIN] BECAUSE I CAN STOP IT.

*I* being the kick-ass Urban Fantasy version of myself, of course. hell, i real life i went into martial arts so it wouldn't happen again.

blathering. sorry. gods, whomever asked that, in that way, and threw that fit - that is a person i don't ever wish to meet, and i'm sorry you had to. thank you for being an awesome writer who writes beautifully and realistically [within the setting/worlds you write in] and who doesn't feel the need to resort to that, because it ISN'T always necessary. and, ya know, it makes me feel a bit more safe to know i won't trip across that triggery topic in your awesome, awesome books.

seanan_mcguire

November 27 2012, 17:59:51 UTC 4 years ago

I don't want to meet them either.

You are always welcome here.

denelian

4 years ago

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Eva Morgan Reeve

November 22 2012, 16:23:40 UTC 4 years ago

I love you.

seanan_mcguire

November 27 2012, 18:00:00 UTC 4 years ago

I love you too. :)

joniw

December 7 2012, 21:50:32 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you!

seanan_mcguire

December 7 2012, 22:19:50 UTC 4 years ago

Your awesome Olivia icon is 100% thanks enough for me.

joniw

4 years ago

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Rebecca Roka

December 9 2012, 22:45:44 UTC 4 years ago

Here's what I consider unrealistic in fiction; people getting knocked unconscious and suffering no ill effects afterward, people getting thrown away from an explosion, by the explosion, and getting up and running away, people without protective gear fighting on an active volcano and not succumbing to toxic gasses. There's so much that's unrealistic. A woman not being raped isn't one of those things.

seanan_mcguire

December 10 2012, 20:56:31 UTC 4 years ago

Word.

Gerd Duerner

December 29 2012, 20:28:06 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  December 29 2012, 20:29:08 UTC

Wow, good to hear there's a an author around one can safely read in Urban Fantasy without encountering the inevitable - which does make it not so inevitable then... (Not meant to be inappropriate humour).

'Cause I really am relieved to hear that, and your books just climbed up on my to read list for this very reason. I find the casualty with which rape occurs throughout Urban Fantasy scary.
It makes want to ask what's wrong with us as humans that we seem to assume it to be completely right to use sexualised violence as mere plot device.

seanan_mcguire

December 31 2012, 23:32:07 UTC 4 years ago

It makes me ask the same question.

smodell1995

December 30 2012, 05:37:15 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

seanan_mcguire

December 31 2012, 23:32:18 UTC 4 years ago

You are very welcome.

Deleted comment

seanan_mcguire

January 9 2013, 19:11:53 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

theniwokesoftly

January 3 2013, 18:35:52 UTC 4 years ago

I love you and I love this post.

seanan_mcguire

January 9 2013, 19:12:02 UTC 4 years ago

Yay!

jmward14

January 9 2013, 04:34:55 UTC 4 years ago

Bless you.
Somehow I missed this the first time around. I only found it today, because Jim Hines mentioned it in today's round-up.
But that doesn't negate it's truth. I know women are abused and raped every day, but the universe doesn't use it to punish uppity women, which is too often how its handled in fiction. Alternatively, it's used when a series writer has run out of plot ideas for their female protagonist.
Women are as guilty of this as men. As an Army brat who spent her entire professional life working for and with the military, I stopped reading Elizabeth Moon when I realized rape was her only story line. That story is very important, true, but it isn't the only story. Nor does it reflect the reality of the overwhelming majority of the military women I've know--from WWII Army nurses to to Navy admirals to active duty Marine Corps pilots.
Keep finding the other conflicts, the other betrayals, the other challenges that bring your women heroes to the brink of death and disaster. I'll keep reading, and so will many others whose experiences and needs run the gamut of women's lives.

seanan_mcguire

January 9 2013, 19:12:13 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you, and I will.

antigoneschase

January 10 2013, 07:47:14 UTC 4 years ago

I know this entry is from a few months ago, but I only found it a couple of weeks ago, and it's stuck with me, because I went completely ragefaced and pissed off for days over it, and I've blustered about it a few times since (including in an RP setting, where I used it as a learning tool for a few characters).

I trust you, as an author and as a person, to write the story that needs told, however it has to come to be. I appreciate, as both a reader and a human being, that you've chosen not to write about this subject. Like so many others, I trust that if you DID write about it, you would handle it with the same eloquence and grace as you write everything else. But, again-like so many others, I am so happy to know it won't be happening to Toby or the Incrypted girls.

I... just... thank you. All around. For being you. For sharing your gifts with the universe and making the world a better place. For standing up for your work and your rights. For being a role model, whether you mean to be or not. For making it through life and getting here, to this point, where you share yourself with us without asking much in return (Buy a book! Feed the kitties!), and putting up with a shit load of negative and bad that the world can throw at you.

I still wanna be like you when I "grow up". Thank you for letting me be a fan, and for letting me feel like a "friend" of yours, from a distance.

seanan_mcguire

February 15 2013, 15:44:02 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for being here!

Feminism, links, and gendered protagonist trauma

livejournal

January 12 2013, 19:36:09 UTC 4 years ago

User game_byrd referenced to your post from Feminism, links, and gendered protagonist trauma saying: [...] ting female characters in historical settings are unrealistic. And this is an author's response [...]

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seanan_mcguire

February 15 2013, 15:44:21 UTC 4 years ago

I wish we could stop MAKING these posts, honestly.

Love your work!

LiederMadchen

January 18 2013, 06:28:51 UTC 4 years ago

You go girl! I agreed with absolutely everything in this article. I don't think that rape should be a taboo subject in fiction, but using it just as a plot device is almost disgusting. And for anyone to expect you to inflict it on your characters just because they think it would be 'realistic' is beyond idiotic.

P.S. Deerskin is one of the most brutally beautiful books I have ever read.

seanan_mcguire

February 15 2013, 15:44:45 UTC 4 years ago

In re: your PS: Agreed. I've read it a dozen times, and it never fails to stun and amaze me.

MelissiaKuromoi

January 18 2013, 21:20:18 UTC 4 years ago

Hugs for you!

Oddly enough, I had a question about rape posed to me, regarding my own writing project... and... although I'm not a professional writer (and haven't ever made money off of it), for many of the same reasons, I just don't see myself as wanting to include rape in my stories.

They asked "did [character A] rape [character B]" in regards to me stating one abused the other (it just so happened that A was male and B was female)... and the answer I came up with was no. They didn't. The abuse was emotional and mental abuse. Neither were even characters who have yet actually appeared in the story directly, nor had an active role during the story's timeline, yet this was the question posed to me. It's a bit irksome that this is what they were interested in, considering all of the other things I had going on in the story at the time (in fact, I was more worried about having TOO much going on and moving the story too quickly), and all of the characters who had actually been a part of the story.

:\

Long story short... I'm glad to hear you stuck with your decision. Rape is a dramatic and horrible thing, and if you're going to include it, you had damned well better make sure you give it the respect it deserves... and because of this, it can very easily take away from any story it's put in, and very, VERY easily be done horribly wrong.

Sorry for the little rant. I enjoyed your article. I'll be sure to look at getting a copy of some of your work when I get a bit more spending money :D

seanan_mcguire

February 15 2013, 15:45:06 UTC 4 years ago

This is a rant-safe space, always. :)

delynfirebrand

January 18 2013, 22:10:12 UTC 4 years ago Edited:  January 18 2013, 22:29:48 UTC

I followed a link here from http://maggiestiefvater.com/blog/this-is-a-post-about-literary-rape/
The assumption that rape is to be expected in stories with female protagonists is rather boggling.
I hate reading a story and then coming across !supriseRape. It's one of the few things that will make me ditch a series (and sometimes the whole author).

I've not actually read any of your books, but knowing that there will not ever be rape in the pages? Huge motivation to start reading. I'm going to go pester my local library about getting your books now.
Edit to add: they have books 1 & 2 of the October Daye series, but that's it. I checked out book 1 and sent an email requesting they get more of the series.

seanan_mcguire

February 15 2013, 15:45:36 UTC 4 years ago

I just...rape is not a thing I should have to face in fiction. The real world is quite full enough.

ThatBitchFromNJ

January 24 2013, 01:50:11 UTC 4 years ago

Fantastic post. Thank you so much for this. And that person? I would not want to be around someone who thinks that way. At all. Ever.

seanan_mcguire

February 14 2013, 19:17:11 UTC 4 years ago

Me, neither, quite honestly.

The Galactic Suburbia Award 2012

livejournal

February 14 2013, 11:19:56 UTC 4 years ago

User cassiphone referenced to your post from The Galactic Suburbia Award 2012 saying: [...] Seanan McGuire (@seananmcguire) for “Things I Will Not Do To My Characters. Ever.” [...]

heliopausa

March 6 2013, 09:14:54 UTC 4 years ago

Coming in late to say... I'm staggered at the question having been asked, and totally cheering at your answer.

seanan_mcguire

March 8 2013, 18:13:23 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you.

IWD greetings!

livejournal

March 7 2013, 06:20:53 UTC 4 years ago

User heliopausa referenced to your post from IWD greetings! saying: [...] -- Seanan's McGuire's post about "Things I will not do to my characters. Ever." [...]

msilverstar

March 8 2013, 18:08:20 UTC 4 years ago

Gahhhh, how ugly, and so many guys think that they just don't say it out loud.

BTW, your series looks great for my teenage daughter, but I couldn't find any affiliate links to your books in your profile. Found them anyway, but you might want to make it easier for people.

seanan_mcguire

March 8 2013, 18:14:18 UTC 4 years ago

I honestly don't have time to come up with links to every possible retailer, and I got yelled at for "showing favor" when I only linked to the ones who made it easy. I've chosen not to link anywhere, to avoid stress, and I'm sorry that required you to search. I'm glad you looked anyway.

sunlessnick

March 10 2013, 14:38:25 UTC 4 years ago

Found this post via the Hathor Legacy. And ye gods.

It's the "finally" that gets me the most. I'm on a public computer with a filter that blocks half the pages of comments, so I can't tell if anyone's said this already, but the "finally" bespeaks not just an assumption of inevitability, but anticipation - they're looking forward to it.

seanan_mcguire

March 15 2013, 14:50:29 UTC 4 years ago

It was the finally that got me, too.

vortexae

March 18 2013, 03:21:43 UTC 4 years ago

Came back to reread this post after reading "The Rape of James Bond," a blog post that complements this one very well. You ask, Why the hell are some readers expecting and anticipating that female characters be raped? McDougall asks, That being the case, why the hell is it never expected and anticipated of/for male characters? I mean, if we're going for realistic here, let's talk about the 1 out of 33 statistic.

(I see this does get touched upon at least once in the first page of comments. I haven't read all 14 pages yet, but I shall.)

Thank you as always for being a shining beacon of comfort and reason.

seanan_mcguire

July 29 2013, 20:16:01 UTC 3 years ago

You are very welcome. Thank you for being here.
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