Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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Surviving snakebite, in the desert, in space, and...sudden stardom? What?

Which of these things is not like the other:

* Surviving IN SPACE.
* Surviving IN THE DESERT.
* Surviving BEING BITTEN BY VENOMOUS REPTILES.
* Surviving YOUR SUDDEN AND INEVITABLE POP STAR LIFE.

I...what?

A little context for you, because context is to my crankiness as the Great Pumpkin is to the Sacred Patch: yesterday was Wednesday, better known around these parts as "Seanan goes to the comic book store" day. We went to the comic book store. I picked up my books (new issues of The Boys and Hack/Slash, new trades of Chew and American Vampire), and prowled the shelves, looking to see what else had arrived.

In the "family friendly" section, I found two books I hadn't seen before: Boys Only How To Survive Anything, and its natural mate, Girls Only How To Survive Anything. They were, naturally, somewhat pink and blue, but I don't have a moral objection to pink, and if they were going to be all gendered about things, I supposed having "gender appropriate" colors made sense. I picked up Boys Only and flipped through it.

Surviving disasters, natural and man-made. Surviving conflicts and accidents and on the space shuttle and monsters. Surviving, you know, shit that can kill you. Works for me. I put down Boys Only and picked up Girls Only. Where I learned to survive...

Breakouts. Becoming a pop star (and the inevitable carpal tunnel from signing all those autographs). Saying I'm sorry (with homemade lip balm). Identifying a frenemy. Surviving, you know, shit that generally doesn't leave you dead.

Can you guess when I started seeing red?

Now look. I get that we're a culture that thinks boys and girls should always like different things, and that we start reinforcing that from a very early age. I get that to some degree, on average, boys and girls do like different things. It's by no means universal, but things like the Brony movement aside, you do have gendered majorities for many activities and interests. Fine. But you know where that breaks down? When we tell girls, through implication, that they shouldn't know how to survive in the desert. Knowing how to handle, gasp, pimples is so much more important.

Not every girl needs to know how to deal with venomous reptiles, just like not every boy needs to know how to base jump. Because of differing interests and activities, I could have believed as much as 40% deviation between the books. Teach the boys how to tie a tie, and the girls how to fix runs in the nylons, fine. It's cisgendered and assumes so much, but it makes societal sense, if you're dividing the books by gender (and I'm almost in favor of that, just so that they don't give all the action illustrations to boys, and all the pretty or panicked illustrations to girls). Understand that gendering is problematic and try to be reasonable.

But we are talking 95% deviation. The only activity they had in common? Escaping from a zombie. Because...fuck, I don't know. Because zombies are the only truly gender-neutral threat in the world, apparently. Deserts only fuck you up if you have a penis. Frenemies (how I hate that word) only endanger your reputation if you have tits. But zombies? Man, they will fuck you up, no matter what you've got.

I hate this increasing insistence that boys and girls are alien species, coming together only to do icky romance dances of ickiness, and make more boys and girls to never understand each other at all. Girls can like snakes. Boys can like looking nice for dates. And that doesn't mean a damn thing but "we are all individuals, we will all like and want and do different stuff."

At least we're all allowed to know how to fight zombies.
Tags: cranky blonde is cranky, don't be dumb, zombies
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okay, now you've got me wondering. What was the advice on surviving zombies?
Essentially, "run like fuck."

kimuro

5 years ago

jenfullmoon

5 years ago

dormouse_in_tea

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

kimuro

5 years ago

capplor

5 years ago

This would have really irritated me if I'd seen it.

I really hate the whole boys and girls are completely diffrent species idea that a lot of pop culture seems to support, like that stupid new movie that says women can only understand men after reading a book cracking guy codes or whatever.

And, off topic, I really need to catch up onChew.
Yes, you do. Olive is getting a way better part. She rules.

hoppytoad79

5 years ago

micheinnz

5 years ago

That is... rather extreme. And very disappointing.
Agreed.
Yeah, that would piss me off too.

Survive means "not die" which means it only aplies when dying is a serious possibility. Sometimes we use it as a joke like "I survived WorldCon" or something but those jokes are best when they're gender neutral.

Part of what makes me mad is the lost opportunities. Those books could *both* have been cool. They could have included a mix of things that are way out, like being stranded in the desert or lost in the woods, or bitten by a rattlesnake, and things that are more common, like a blowout on the freeway or a bicycle crash or a fire in the kitchen. Or they could both include survival skills like how to find north and how to catch rainwater, and "survival" skills like how to sew on a button or change your locks or change a tire or wash dishes. Actually, come to think of it "how to change your locks" can be a survival skill without any quotes.

(Actually I think a class on "horrible things that can happen to your car and how to prevent, detect and survive them" would be a great high school or college class. But I digress.)
Yes, there are so many small classes on practical knowledge/life skills I wish one could have taken in high school/college - everything from your "car survival" one to "basic household finance" to advanced stuff like "hey, you can cook with more than three spices and not poison yourself" [my family had salt, pepper and paprika - the existence and usage of things like garlic was such a revelation].

Some of what I think of as "urban school" groups, like First Class 101, etc. do occasionally offer a few courses of that type in amongst "finding your inner creative through [pottery, etc.]" [which is important, but] and "dating and relationship tips" [which are also important, but]. However, if you don't live in a major metro area, then you're pretty much confined to books or what you find on the internet -- or if you're lucky maybe you find you know someone who knows what they're doing AND is willing/able to teach you. *sigh*

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

I think for me the worst thing about the girl's survival guide is that it's still working on the premise that girls have fairly shallow and vain interests. A friend of mine got a card from a relative once and even though she's definitely from all points of a definition a "girly-girl" the card was using that vapid "OMG I LOVE BOYS AND THINGS AND MAKEUP" kind of tone and she got angry over it. I would kind of fit under that description myself to some degree and I find that incredibly insulting too. It's great that if I were to pick up this book for my niece that she would be able to deal with pimples (because apparently on girls get them now?) but wouldn't it be way more fun to find out how to slay vampires or figure out how to track your way through the jungle? There are a million ways that the producers of these books could have made the girls section awesome and fun but instead they had to take the "OH NOES I'M JUST A HELPLESS GIRL AND CAN'T THINK BEYOND NEEDING TO MAKE SURE MY LIP GLOSS MATCHES MY SHOOOOOESS!" route. Shame on them!
Agreed.
Not allowing for these possibilities renders these books "Made of Fail", if I understand the phrase correctly.
Your understanding is exactly right.

Deleted comment

Yes, you do.

Happy wedding!

dewline

5 years ago

Ugh, that's so infuriating. :/
Yeah, it really is.
headdesking as fast as I can...

Sigh. Over 40 years ago I quit Girl Scouts at the jump between the 2nd & 3rd age groups because I'd read the manuals & noticed that the Boy Scouts got to do badges on things like Space & Ham Radio, & I was expected to settle for 6 more years of Cooking & Entertaining (as in throwing parties).

It's infuriating that so little has changed.
It got better for a while. And then it slid right. Fucking. Back.

thedragonweaver

5 years ago

micheinnz

5 years ago

amusingmuse

5 years ago

starmalachite

5 years ago

For Christmas, I got my wife Thor's Hammer, and Captain America's Shield for myself. We were both 'amused' that one of the places carrying them classified them as 'for boys'. They obviously never watched "Adventures in Babysititng". I took my business elsewhere, of course.

When I visit my in-laws in the Bay Area's Concord, I make it a point to visit Joe's store "Flying Colors". Wednesday used to be my I'm-going-to-Joe's-comics-store when I was living there.
Joe has been my guy since I was seven.

Best comic store is best.
*breathes slowly and carefully to try to push back the red mist*
Yeah, about my response.
Oh for Fuck's sake.....I don't want to live on this planet any more!
Let's move.

micheinnz

5 years ago

scarybaldguy

5 years ago

archangelbeth

5 years ago

dornbeast

5 years ago

Headdesk.
Boys are active. Girls exist to be patronised, apparently. My generation was promised that our daughters would not be treated like this.
Funny how that promise hasn't been kept.
I'm a bit bothered about it, too. And now they're promising again, and I don't trust it now, either...

micheinnz

5 years ago

hoppytoad79

5 years ago

la_marquise_de_

5 years ago

hoppytoad79

5 years ago

la_marquise_de_

5 years ago

That's completely appalling. I could see if a few things were different but all except zombies? I mean, at least we ladies at least get to learn how to deal with THAT. WTF.
At least there will be ladies after the Rising?

grey_lady

5 years ago

Deleted comment

What is really weird to me is how much distance there is between this stuff and the Enid Blyton/Swallows and Amazons/E Nesbit books that were a major part of my childhood (my grandparents had a bookshelf).

These books were majorly problematic in a lot of areas, chock full of racism and sexism but at least they assumed that some girls wanted to have adventures every bit as much as boys. If a book is less tolerant of variant gender roles than pre- 1960's British children's literature then it's got some pretty major problems...
Seriously.
Grr. Grr. *snarl* I hate those kind of assumptions. I like shiny hair ornaments and jeans, and ballroom dancing and Tae Kwon Do, and flowery prints and flying helicopters. Whatever assumptions people are making about me? I guaran-damn-tee some of them are wrong. GRR!

But speaking of zombies, hope this helps your universe-view a little: random sighting of someone on the DC subway reading Mira Grant's _Feed_. Started just talking to the person about it (one problem with eReaders is that they do _not_ enable this kind of conversational initiation based on just seeing the book cover, and admitting you are actually reading text over someone's shoulder can be, well, kinda rude if not downright creepy. Just ask Lyle Lovett...) and got back things like "multiple recommendations from other people" and "I'm not really into zombie books, but this is a sociopolitical thriller where zombies are part of the storyline and the society, so that's great" and "feels very relevant to current events". We then segued into urban fantasy so I just happened to mention Mira Grant's alter ego had two other series with different tones. :)

Hail "we are all individuals, we will all like and want and do different stuff"!
Hail!
thanks for the warning, I know to not pick up either book if I see them. I do like that zombies make each book, especially with only 20 days till blackout.
Yes!
I swear, it seems like they have it backwards.

I have taken classes in "surviving in the desert" and "surviving in a blizzard" and all that. We covered it in Boy Scouts. There's a societal expectation that boys will learn about that sort of thing, and there's a societal infrastructure around that.

Wanna know how often I've used most of that? Yeah, right.

Identifying frenemies? Yes, boys have those, but we don't really know how to deal with them. Acne? Oh, hell yes. Carpal tunnel? Heheheheh.


It seems the notions in these books screw over both sides. I'd want a balanced mix between "stuff that can actually kill you" and "stuff that won't really kill you, but you totally ought to know" which would, from your description, be more accurate ways to describe the boys and girls books, respectively.

It is, I suspect, possible to write such books that aren't full of stupid gender stereotypes, but it would have to be very thoughtful and there'd be an awful lot more overlap. I'd just want to group it differently, really.
Absolutely.

gement

5 years ago

thedragonweaver

5 years ago

thedragonweaver

5 years ago

Did you hear the noise as my jaw repeatedly hit the floor as I read on?

I wanna know how to survive the shit that kills, because I have no desire to be a po ~oh shiny. Parcelpostman just deliverd the new Charlaine Harris book ~
what was I saying?

What I need to know is how the heck to organise all my books in a tiny house.
With a shrink ray, if possible.

dragonsally

5 years ago

dewline

5 years ago

paksenarrion2

5 years ago

zellieh

5 years ago

Deleted comment

You are an awesome parent, just for that.

hoppytoad79

5 years ago

paksenarrion2

5 years ago

micheinnz

5 years ago

thedragonweaver

5 years ago

A-fucking-men. I hate that crap, too.

It's just...ARGH.
I think I've seen those, and I had about the same reaction.
While I may have been the only 7 year old girl in the neighborhood who knew how to change spark plugs on her dad's motorcycle (no over-torque, please!), I have never understood why it should be that way. The girl scouts' focus on beauty shop skills is equally annoying to me.
Absolutely.
*standing ovation*

*cheer*

*conga line dance of extreme approval* <---- I think I should get Aeslin mice to do this one. It is very hard to conga alone.

"I hate this increasing insistence that boys and girls are alien species, coming together only to do icky romance dances of ickiness, and make more boys and girls to never understand each other at all."

I cannot like this statement enough. I have pretty strong feelings about "what we are taught to like" versus "what we will naturally gravitate towards," largely I expect due to being raised by a feminist who could knit and do macrame and such (that being my father) and a free-thinker who enjoyed manly and outdoorsey pursuits like fishing and hunting and mowing the lawn (that being my mother). Having been left largely to my own devices, I realized I like boy things (like giant robots and muscle cars) and girl things (like pink: I'm not sure I want a pink giant robot, but frankly if you will give a giant robot I don't really care what color it is).

This doesn't bother me but it drives me bonkers that it bothers other people, and in fact that people who otherwise love me occasionally grab me by the proverbial ear and instruct me in 'how to act like a lady.' I act like a perfectly fine lady; I just don't want to spend five hundred dollars on a pair of painful shoes but probably would spend it learning how to jump out of an airplane or how to more effectively wave a sword around, how does that make me not a lady? IT MAKES ME AN AWESOME LADY. SO THERE.

Clearly someone needs to swap the books covers in the interest of readjusting warped social expectations.
I'm told that in spite of the intelligence of Aeslin mice, it's easier to teach rats to dance the conga. Or, at least, I keep hearing about people sending their conga rats.

Also, I support your non-concern about the color of the giant robot. It is easily proven that owning a giant robot of any color has a better survival rate than being stomped on by a giant robot.

aliciaaudrey

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

aliciaaudrey

5 years ago

aliciaaudrey

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

kyra_neko_rei

5 years ago

Case in point of individualtiy crossing societal gender lines, my daughter likes dresses and guns... Her mother only likes guns.
Heeeeeee.
I fucking love you.

And now I want to write the Girls' Manual for the Kicking of Asses.
I'd totally read the hell out of that. Can there be a chapter dedicated to Surviving Terribly Antiquated Gender Stereotyping in Books For Girls?

wendyzski

5 years ago

pbristow

5 years ago

wendyzski

5 years ago

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