Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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Seanan loves her some fanfic, yes she does: on transformative works.

Fanfic has come up several times in the past few days. People I know have been talking about it, either in the context of "is fanfic okay?" or "this piece of fanfic is awesome!" And with The Hunger Games about to appear on the big screen, we're standing on the precipice of a vast flood of fic, some based on the movie, some based on the original books, and some trying to reconcile the inevitable differences between the two. Oh, and there will be banging. So. Much. Banging. Because regardless of the source material, that's what roughly fifty percent of fanfic is for. And because of all this, I've been thinking about fanfic.

Not that it's hard to make me think about fanfic. Yesterday, for example, I spent a relaxing hour during my "lunch break" (a nebulous concept on a Sunday, admittedly, but since I worked all damn day, I wanted a lunch break) reading Glee fanfic. Most of it was Rachel/Quinn, which is not a 'ship I necessarily endorse on the show itself, but which has attracted some really awesome authors whose work I hugely enjoy. I became a professional author largely because I had been writing fanfic for so many years that I was eventually able to level up and start playing in my own sandboxes. I love fanfic. I love it. And because I've been thinking about fanfic, I wanted to make a few statements about fanfic.

Fanfic can teach you how to write.

I'm serious. If you have a good critique group, usually referred to as "beta readers," to go over your work before you post it, fanfic can be a great tool for learning how to put together a good sentence, a good paragraph, and a good overall narrative. You have to be ready to hear criticism, because the fanfic community is also a great place to go for unrelenting praise, but if you're ready, the tools for improvement are there. Playing in someone else's world is an excellent way to dodge the initial world building step, and get straight to dialog, composition, and the all-important "building a good story." It lets you hone your tools in a safe place, and that's incredibly helpful.

I didn't learn how to build good worlds from fanfic; I had to start doing my own thing before I could learn, and apply, that lesson. But I learned to write good dialog from fanfic, and I learned how to make people care. The fanfic community was hugely important to, and influential toward, my development as a writer.

Again, there are some pitfalls to this approach. Fanfic can easily become a closed circuit of production and praise, where people who want to read exactly what you're writing tell you how awesome you are, so you write the same thing over and over again, without any growth. Fanfic can seem like an excuse to be sloppy. But if you're approaching it seriously, which many really good fanfic authors do, it can teach you an incredible amount about writing, about receiving critique, and about taking editorial feedback. The first really thorough editorial feedback I ever received was on a piece of fanfic, and I have held those lessons dear to my heart since I was sixteen years old. Fanfic is an awesome learning lab, and the only credentials you need to enter are a knowledge of a fandom you'd like to write in, and the willingness to be told when you're terrible.

Fanfic gives you the freedom to do things that are difficult to do in more traditional fiction.

Some of my favorite things to both read and write in fanfic are "mood pieces," little meandering stories that don't do anything but paint a picture of a moment, or look at an event from a different direction. They're all about introspection and re-framing, and when they're good, they're amazing. But they're not the sort of thing that sells. I can (and do) write them about my published series, but they're not the sort of thing that generally winds up finding a very wide audience. And in fanfic, that doesn't matter. I've written stories with a projected audience of three. All three people were happy, and I was content.

I love AU fanfic—alternate universe stories where things went a little different, someone died or didn't die or married their season one sweetheart or it's a Shakespearean tragedy or or or. And AU is hard in traditional fiction. I've managed to play around with it a bit in "Velveteen vs.", where I have the superhero framework as an excuse, but I doubt Toby will ever meet her cross-dimensional counterpart (which is a pity, because I bet it would be fascinating). I like having the option to twist things and see how everything unfolds from a new starting point.

Fanfic can help you find your voice.

I know people who say "why don't all those fanfic writers just play in their own worlds?" And the thing is, some of them will, some of them do. People don't have to choose one or the other, absolutely, no mixing or matching. A lot of fanfic authors go on to become professional authors, and keep on writing fanfic in whatever spare time they have. I am not a special snowflake in this regard. I belong to a blizzard. There are a lot of reasons that people write fanfic. Sometimes we do it because we're in love with a setting that someone else has created. Sometimes we do it because we want to fix what we view as flaws, or create a more balanced back story for a character we feel has gotten short shift, or just because we feel like it. Sometimes we do it because we're bored.

But every time we do it, even when we're trying to sound like the original creator, we're getting a little more solid in our own voices, in the ways that we shape and approach narratives. We find ourselves in the space between someone else's story. At the end of the day, is learning to write by producing reams of Buffy the Vampire Slayer fanfiction any less legit than retelling "Snow White" eighty-seven times? I don't think so. It's less commercial, since you can't (and shouldn't) sell your fanfic, but it's still a natural part of figuring out who you are as a writer.

Not every writer will write fanfic. Not every writer needs to, or wants to. But for those of us who do, it helps us find ourselves. And that's important.

Fanfic is just plain fun.

I wrote a Josie and the Pussycats/Veronica Mars crossover fic once.

I think that sort of says it all.

Fanfic can change the way you think about a story.

I've heard a few people say that everyone who writes fanfic is a spoiling spoiler who spoils, throwing mud and slime all over something beautiful. And everyone has a right to an opinion. But while I have never had a piece of fanfic change my opinion of a story negatively, I have had pieces of fanfic make me look at the original work in a new, and much more open-minded, way. Because fanfic shows love, and love means there's something there for me to care about.

I've never read a piece of fic and thought "ew, I'm never reading/watching the source material." The opposite is very much true. Good fanfic, inspired fanfic, brings new eyes to the table, and new eyes are never a bad thing. Having my view of the story transformed makes me more willing to accept where the original narrative goes, and more likely to stick around for the ride. I've never dropped out of a fandom where I was actively invested in the fanfic. Again, the opposite is very much true.

And now, the big thing...

I cannot officially know about fanfic based on my work, but that doesn't mean I hate it.

Like many authors, I find myself in an awkward position regarding fanfic based on my own work. So here is my official stance on the subject:

Don't tell me.

I have Google spiders; it's entirely possible that I will unofficially find out about your epic Toby/Tybalt Candyland slash party. But I promise to delete that notification without clicking through if you promise not to push the story in my face. If I officially know about it, I officially have to ask you to take it down, because there's no way to prove I didn't read it if it turns out that, say, Toby and Tybalt really are going to have a threeway with the Luidaeg on the top of Candy Mountain. So just don't officially tell me about it. If you write a lot, the odds are good that you and I could end up in the same archive. That's cool. I won't fuss about it if you don't.

I love fanfic for everything it does for writers, and for readers, and if in ten years, the author of the hot new urban fantasy series shyly tells me that she got her start writing Quentin/Raj sexy boys' adventure fic, I will applaud, hug her, and probably buy her dinner. I want fanfic to thrive forever and forever, and keep producing amazing stuff for me to read. And the day the very last Toby book is published, I am doing a huge fanfic websearch, diving into some archives, and reading myself sick.
Tags: contemplation, fanfiction
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I do not have adequate words to express my complete and total agreement on this -- and how happy I am that you feel this way. :-)
<3.
I'm not convinced it's not a questionable area in terms of intellectual property law. I'm not an IP law expert. You could not pay me enough money to become an IP law expert, and if I was you could not pay me enough money to tango with the fanfic crowd. I like to pick my flamewars and confine them to matters I think are truly important on a social-cultural level. Fanfic doesn't qualify. That's not an insult. Nobody is going to find their life options cut off at the knees, or find themselves boxed into a cycle of poverty, or end up the hospital and unable to pay the medical bill because a fanfic writer wrote a four thousand page epic about the romantic yearnings of Neville Longbottom or because somebody else found this offensive. Fanfic will never steal your car, seduce your wife, or run for President and bleat at you on morning shows.

I will say that when IP holders aren't charging around screaming about it, it's a no harm, no foul sort of thing. This is always true of IP law, except when failing to charge around and scream about it means you've accidentally ceded some of your property rights (don't ask me, anyone, to explain how this works. I can tell you a lot about how separate property works in New Jersey or about how Bermuda arbitration are structured, but IP law is broadly not my thing, please see above on why I wouldn't touch it with a fifty foot pole and if you payed me a billion million dollars. Well. MAYBE if you paid me a billion million dollars...)

I don't write fanfic. I did, for a while, gosh, ten or more years ago, and I did it largely because it let me write without ramming into the gigantic walls that I tend to slam against in my own work, which is me hitting about one hundred and fifty pages and deciding that EVERYTHING ABOUT MY STORY IS ABSOLUTE CRAP I GIVE UP, FLINGS COMPUTER ACROSS ROOM AND HAS HYSTERICS THAT SCARE THE CAT. (Not that this has ever happened, and if my husband says it has I swear he's exaggerating.)

On a *technical writing level* I'm sure this was VERY helpful because since I didn't create the characters, and I didn't create the setting, and I didn't create the backstory, if those things were absolute unbelievable crap this was totally not my problem, so I didn't worry about it. Ergo, if I wanted to write an epic about Moombas, and someone wanted to point at me and ask how gigantic...tentacley...people with alarming fingers turned into small adorable lion-things with a one-word vocabulary, I could point them at Final Fantasy VIII and go "Beats me. Play it and then give me your theory" without trying to sit down and actually figure out how this worked.

You get to be a better writer by writing. And writing. And writing. And then writing some more. And then writing! It's sometimes much easier to do that when you're not stuck scratching your head and trying to fix a plot hole the depth of the Mariana Trench that's just derailed your entire plot.

Not that this has ever happened to me! *cough*

It's questionable, but there are some genuinely good legal minds working at proving the transformative and hence necessary aspects in not-for-profit fan works. Because of that, and because I do not read fanfic of my work or approve fan works for sale, I feel pretty safe in my position.

aliciaaudrey

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

paksenarrion2

5 years ago

marsdejahthoris

5 years ago

mrs_norris_mous

5 years ago

aliciaaudrey

5 years ago

And the day the very last Toby book is published, I am doing a huge fanfic websearch, diving into some archives, and reading myself sick.

This just delights me on so many levels. The whole post gives me a big warm fuzzy, but that last line brings the fuzzy out into a bubbling fit of joyful.
It'll be FUN!

lots42

5 years ago

I would have quit Glee this season, except for fanfic. I am buying less of the music because it's not as much stuff I like, I am about 3 episodes behind...

... but then I read Miggy's Superhero Glee fanfiction in all it's glory, and I go back and scan the wikipedia page for any more music I might like...

I find that when a show gets slow, or has a few episodes I don't like, the fanfic keeps me involved. Same with the wait between books...

Seriously, I read too fast, I read too much (and the library is running out of books AGAIN) and fanfiction helps me not go crazy. :)

But I can totally see why an author would not read, nor want to know it existed. I kinda hope you get to read the Toby fanfic someday. :)
Ahem.

This comment is useless without links to Superhero Glee fanfiction.

tikiera

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

tikiera

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

tikiera

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

tikiera

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

tikiera

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

tikiera

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

tikiera

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

tikiera

5 years ago

I like your thoughts on this. Much more open midned and accepting than some writers I won't name!

I still write fanfic, still set in the Elder scrolls game universe, and a few forays into Dwarf Fortress, too!
Yay!
Thank you for Getting It.
My pleasure.
Was it comic books 'Josie' or 'Insane Corporate Owned, Advertisements In The Shower Movie Josie' world?

And the idea of Toby and Tybalt playing Candyland frightens me. Deeply.

lots42

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

Thank you for this post.

I started writing original fiction in third grade; I took a hiatus from original fiction for eight years to play exclusively in fandom; I've spent at least eight additional years writing both original fiction and fanfic, sometimes in long stretches of one followed by long stretches of the other and sometimes 3000 words of each in a given day. Both are important to me in very different ways, and being in fandom has taught me so incredibly much about voice and narrative and how to really make a character's perceptions sing.
Exactly. It's a tool, and an art form, and it's very much worth loving.

Deleted comment

I dislike the idea of trying to monetize fanfic largely because that's when it loses what legal, transformative protection it has, and when the working authors who created those properties will have to change their positions. If you want to write your own Toby novels for fun, I'm cool with that. If you want to be paid, when your medium is indistinguishable from mine (words on paper are words on paper), I'm a little less cool with it. I need to feed my cats.

I fully agree, however, that fanfic sustains and even creates love for marginal properties. That is a value that cannot be measured, or overstated.

Deleted comment

YAY!
Fanfiction is what helped me remember how much I love writing. It prodded me into changing my major at UVic so I could do a degree in creative writing through the fine arts department.

Mine is all Harry Potter stuffs so you don't have to ever "officially" ask me to take it down. lol.
Woo, Potterfic!
Speaking of fanfic, I still need to write my Gilmore Girls/Veronica Mars crossover.

That said, where does the line between "fanfic" and "nosy questions that could become plot issues" blur? Is "Will Toby, Tybalt and the Luidaeg ever have a threesome on top of Candy Mountain" any different than writing fanfic about it, if it were to happen?
Since I refuse to answer those questions? There's a huge difference between you asking the question and you shoving your fanfic about the issue in front of my face.
Fanfic totally taught me how to write. Plotting, especially; there's only so long I could noodle around with characters before I had to have them do something, and doing things leads--eventually--to plot. I have a few hundred thousand words of novella-length fanfic that sure as hell isn't ever going to get published, but I'd rather have that--which entertained some friends--than a stack of trunk novels that are unlikely to entertain anyone else.

...that said, fanfic did give me some bad habits that I had to break later. The rough part was learning to keep writing without the constant praise. Write a piece of fanfic, and get a dozen enthusiastic comments and requests for more; write a piece of original fiction, and maybe get a half-hearted "that was nice" from someone... But such is. If what I really wanted out of writing was the constant praise, I could just go back to the fanfic, after all.
My writing group is really great for keeping up the enthusiasm about writing and making us feel like part of a greater community. I recommend them.

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

fadethecat

5 years ago

We will have plenty of time to make an amazing recs list for when you are done, then! :D :D :D :D :D :D
YAY.

tikiera

5 years ago

azurelunatic

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

♥ The reasons for which I think you are awesome keep getting longer. :D

And hey, the number of authors I know who started off writing fanfic keeps getting longer and longer! I can think of at least...four. :D
Yay!
You have an absolutely awesome attitude towards fanfiction, says a happy ficcer who swears to never tell you about anything she writes based on your stuff -- until you wrap up a series and get buried under an avalanche of e-mailed links, that is ;D. I once discussed a couple of fanfic ideas I had with a friend, who then proceeded to go to a book signing and start telling the author concerned all about them (eep!). Thankfully she was very nice, politely informed my friend that she was happy we liked her novels enough to want to write fic but she didn't want to know, and gave my friend a couple of discs full of writing tutorials to send me. ...Rather like your policy, actually; are you sure you aren't related to P.N. Elrod? XD

My writing partner and I have had readers tell us that they never liked [insert source] but then read our fic and decided to give it a second chance, or they had never heard of [insert other source] but have now bought and read it all, and eagerly await more from the original author. Somehow I don't think we've harmed the original authors or taken anything away from them! (Ye gods, if I thought we had... argh, no. Just no.)
Not related, but I like P.N. Elrod a lot. :)

And dude, not cool. I'm glad the author was chill, and I hope your friend has learned. Some authors would have heart attacks on the spot.

mel_redcap

5 years ago

Thank you. And carry on!

(It really, REALLY is fun.)

kikibug13

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

Awesome post.
I've learned over the years that some of my favorite authors wrote fanfic long before any "publishable" (read: original universe) stuff. I always wonder what some of them think now that they're on the other side of things, thanks!

One of my favorite stories ever is the still-updating Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, an AU where Harry was a total science geek, just because of the way it made me look at the original story.
Some of them go for the hard-core ALL FIC IS MURDER stance, which fascinates me. Others are more chill.
I usually don't like fanfic all that much...because, unfortunately, a lot of it is badly written and takes characters I loved in the original fiction somewhere they....ummm, don't belong. I'm not especially keen on characters I loved in a story acting so strange they seem much like terribly bad cosplayers snitching name and clothes off the original, yet unable to symbolize anything but themselves in an ill-fitting costume.
So I usually don't read fanficsanymore after some attempts that made me just plain angry... I rather search for fresh original fiction to keep me from sleeping at night. Plain and simple.

However, I've come across one fanfic thingie written by a friend (with whom I've had quite some arguments on the topic in the past).
I daresay I was amazed. Amazed because it was actually well-written. Amazed because she focused on a character who offered room for open questions. She filled those spaces rather than turning everyone and everything upside down, all the while respecting that character's "usual" personality. I found myself reading the night away in awe....and had to admit not all fanfiction is necessarily bad.

But yeah, I think it can be a problem for you as a published author if you read a fanfic about one of your works, found one idea by chance which you had already thought about yourself but wouldn't be able to use it anymore.
I think that's Sturgeon's Law at work. 90% of anything is shit, and with fanfic, there's no gatekeeper to stop you from wading right into the muck. Good fanfic exists, but you have to look for it, and that means you have to care enough to keep looking. I totally respect your position, and I'm glad you've seen the better side of fanfic, too. :)
Knowing you'll one day be going on a Tobyfic binge simultaneously makes me want to go write a Toby fanfic epic and NEVER write Toby fanfic ever. XD

Honestly, though, it makes me sad that some authors get so up in arms about fic and stuff, especially when they're writing a series and not a standalone novel. Fic and RP are the best ways to get through the pain and misery that is the time between books in a series coming out if you're in love with it, and I find that those things just make me MORE excited for the next book to come out, and makes me more likely to run out and buy it the day it comes out. It's how I've managed this long since Deadline came out, how I'm (barely) not going insane knowing it's still half a year to the next Toby book, and how (having just finished Discount Armageddon after my wife relinquished it) I will make it from now until the next InCryptid book. Fic and RP, along with copious re-reading, is how I'll keep myself rolling in the amazing world of Ilona Andrew's Kate Daniels books until the next installment arrives.

And of course, at the end of it all... it's damn fun.
Agreed.
I read a lot of fan fic. You are not the only published author I have on my shelf that started (or continues) in fan fic.

I find it happens to me that I don't care for the source material but enjoy the fan fic.
I've discovered that, too.
I am in love with this post. Utterly. Completely.

*snuggles it*

*writes fanfic about it*
And thus are we BECOME META.

cathellisen

5 years ago

This is an great post -- very cogent, thorough, and thoughtful.

And I'm very glad that once the last Toby book is published and you're no longer at risk, you'll start reading fic -- it makes a lot of sense!
It'll be fun!
Thank you for this post; you've given me some things to think about. I think this is the first cogent, reasonable, non-defensive or aggressive explanation/validation of fanfic I've encountered. If every ficcer I'd met had your attitude, and ability to express yourself, I probably wouldn't have developed my admittedly knee-jerk reaction to most fanfic. (Taken to an extreme, I once told someone the only fanfic worthy of existence were published works that are themselves the subjects of high-level lit courses. This was in response to one of the rudest, most obnoxious, and condescending jerks I've ever gotten in a literary fight with, and yeah, "She started it" isn't the most mature excuse in the world. But she totally did. And I've heard from way too many people who think like she does and way too few people like you.)

I'm still bothered by some of the comments I've seen on this post, though - there are several suggesting, or very nearly stating, that fanfic writers are the "real" fans, the ones who are the most invested, the most devoted, who've given the most thought to the original work. It's one of the main reasons I try to avoid conversations with fic authors/consumers. Not participating in fanfic doesn't make me a "passive" reader - everything I read, and I mean every single thing, I analyze, critique, explore, constantly. It's how my brain is wired. I was a lit theory geek in college and if anyone really wants to hear my feminist, post-colonial, or post-modern analysis of a given novel I'm happy to oblige (strangely, few people do. My partner runs for the hills when I bring up any of those terms. But I'm okay with that). If someone wants to tear into a text with me, or let me pick their brain, I'm even happier. But it makes me really unhappy when people say all this means I don't love the work as much as they do because they write fic.

I'm never going to join the fic community, but I am going to think about the points you made. And I'm glad that I love your books and posts enough that I was able to read this with a more open mind than I've probably had before.
I understand the bother; I think there's a natural tendency by sub-groups to go "Well, those who do X are truer fans than those who don't!" as a part of identity definition. ("Those who pin-trade at Disney parks are truer fans than those who don't!" "Those who keep their collectable dolls in boxes are truer fans than those who don't!", etc.) That doesn't make it not annoying, but it means I've sort of learned to shut it out, since wandering around biting people is considered anti-social.

I'm way sorry you've had bad experiences, and way glad I was able to put things in a way that makes sense. And you are totally welcome to give me feminist analysis if we're ever in the same place at the same time with ten minutes to spare.
I once read a fantastic Veronica Mars/Lovecraft fic. The possibilities in fanfiction are off the charts. No rules, no restrictions, just a big sandbox. I spent some time in a tiny niche of Buffy fandom with my fellow Warren/Andrew shippers. Small group, but we had a ton of fun.
That's the thing: as long as I don't make you read it, my ship is okay, and so is yours. It's awesome.
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