Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
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Dead girls, dream boys, and dark secrets: some thoughts on YA today.

I read what could charitably be referred to as "a lot" of YA. And by "a lot," we mean "essentially a metric fuck-ton," sometimes with an assload or two on the side. I have favorite authors, I have favorite series, I love the drama and the craziness and the sheer freedom of it all. Despite my occasional threats to write a book about sexy teenage wendigo living in Key West (YOU KNOW IT WOULD BE AWESOME), I seriously want to break into YA, and have finished several YA books.

This means I also read a lot of discussion of YA literature, because you can't have fandom without fanatical dissection of the meaning and motives behind every little thing. It's fun!

And sometimes it's also troubling.

Rachel Stark wrote a fascinating, and chilling, article about a current cover trend in YA fiction. Why chilling? Because, as she says, "The trend is dead girls." And she's right. Even more than the girls in wafting gowns, or the girls without heads, we've been seeing lots and lots and lots of girls who look like they've already shuffled off this mortal coil. I've read several of these books. Putting a wilted waif in a beautiful bower on the cover is the equivalent of putting a wilted waif in a beautiful bower on the cover of Sparrow Hill Road. Yeah, Rose is long dead when the series starts, but why is that the image we need to focus on? Why is that the moment that sells the book?

(And in case you're thinking that Rachel has just combed a huge stack of books and pulled out the only possible examples, here's Allison, a teen services librarian, with even more dead girls on book covers waiting to stare at you with their dead but pretty eyes. It's like a corpse-themed episode of America's Next Top Model around here.)

I love a good YA romance, but a lot of the time, we seem to focus on the "boy wants girl, girl isn't sure she wants boy, boy makes damn sure girl wants boy, boy gets girl" arc, rather than "boy meets girl, girl and boy actually have interests in common, girl makes an informed decision, boy gets girl." And yes, I made bad dating choices in high school, including one guy who thought he was a werewolf, so there's my "maybe you shouldn't date the crazy" moment. But there's a difference between "bad choices" and "every girl, ever, makes the bad choice, because it's also the exciting one." I've had this fascinating, and troubling, essay on misogyny and rape culture in YA bookmarked for a while. Warning: it may be triggery for some people, and while I disagree with the conclusions drawn about at least one series, the points are valid and interesting.

Meanwhile, In Which A Girl Reads has summarized her thoughts on YA romance, and some of the ways in which it needs to change, better than I ever could. This bit, especially, got to me:

"And from all the books I'm reading, I'm getting this from YA romance:
1) Girls should judge guys off of their looks
2) Lust equals love
3) It doesn't matter if a guy is rude to you, it just means he likes you
4) At the tender age of 16, 17, 18, your boyfriend is your undying, forever, and ever SOUL MATE.
6) If you're a girl with problems, make sure to find a guy who will solve them for you
7) Guys in a relationship should push you around
8)etc. etc. [insert bad messages about relationships here, I'm sure some book in YA will glorify them at some point]"

Pulling pigtails and frogs in desks. I guess some things never change. She also made a followup post, to clarify a few of her statements; I seriously recommend reading both.

And so it's said, because both of these links have been specifically critical of certain books, some of which I haven't read: I don't think any one book is a problem. IT didn't make me spend all my time in a sewer hunting killer clowns, and the endless stack of Lurlene McDaniel books that I read as a teenager—you know, those "inspirational" ones with titles like She Died Too Young, and Mother, Help Me Live—didn't make me pray for a wasting disease so that I could find true love. The issue is wide-ranging trends, because those can become a serious problem in the way we look at things, both individually and as a society. If every hot boy worth loving is abusive, and every parent is neglectful, we're going to start having issues.

(Oh, and as a side note, I found a blog totally devoted to recapping Lurlene McDaniel books. You're welcome.)

I think these are things we should be thinking about, as readers of YA, as writers of YA, and as people who wind up recommending YA to others. We need the Edwards and Bellas; there's clearly a market for them, and they just as clearly strike a deep chord with some readers. But we need other models for relationships, too.

And maybe a few more living girls on book covers would be nice.

ETA: Here are some more thoughts on the subject by the lovely glitter_n_gore.
Tags: contemplation, literary critique
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I've had many, many thoughts about the troubling parts of YA romance myself. The overwhelming trend seems very unhealthy--and hard for me to relate to, honestly, because I seem to have this aversion towards controlling guys no matter how hot they are. It worries me that this aversion doesn't extend to the majority of the reading demographic.

That said--I don't know if you've read Kiersten White's Paranormalcy, but the romance there is very balanced and realistic. There are some readers who seem to feel that there's a triangle going on there, but I didn't really get that vibe from it--the "other" guy is controlling and manipulative and good-looking, sure, but the heroine genuinely hates him and stays as far away as possible. It kind of weirds me out to think that there are shippers out there who think he's still in the race.
Oh, and I would TOTALLY read that theoretical wendigo book.

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

gorgeousgary

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

brightlotusmoon

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

brightlotusmoon

5 years ago

Deleted comment

I wanted to be more profound, but she was so damn profound that all I could really do was link and comment. She already said the amazing things.
The trick, of course, is making ""boy meets girl, girl and boy actually have interests in common, girl makes an informed decision, boy gets girl" not just sensible, but interesting.
Totally. But it can be done, and done well; I've seen it. And sometimes, "love overcomes our differences" is part of that process.

keestone

5 years ago

Oh wow, there's the context I needed for that last conversation I had with my Girl Guides. I /do/ read a lot of YA, I just don't read the romance subgenre, preferring as I do Adventure! with a hint of romance rather than Romance! with a hint of adventure (my Tamora Pierce novels, let me show you them).

So I was slightly confused when they were (after roundly deriding Twilight, because vampires are apparently no longer cool to 12-year olds) describing a book and how ~romantic~ it was, and all I could think was 'noooope, that's creepy is what it is'. Maybe it /is/ time to do the Media Awareness badge.
That might be a good idea...

firynze

5 years ago

It's like a corpse-themed episode of America's Next Top Model around here

"America's Top Mouldels"?

Maybe we should start rumors that your next book will be about a sexy teenage wendigo living in Key West. You'll then have no choice but to write that story.
Alas, that does not work, for I have deadlines to be met.

serge_lj

5 years ago

If the moods strikes, I'd be interested to know your current favorite YA books/series of those published this decade (or this millennium).
Unless you've recently posted a list, in which case I'll go looking.

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

zeekie

5 years ago

I couldn't agree more - it's fine to have some Bellas and Edwards around, and some of those other questionable relationship situations, but we also need other perspectives. It's sort of like the Yes Gay YA thing - we need to show healthy relationships, and unhealthy ones, and relationships between boys, and relationships between girls, and you know what we really need more of? YA books that show teen girls being friends with each other (or friends with boys, with no romantic subtext going there...just being friends). I feel like that doesn't happen NEARLY often enough, and it's a little creepy to me.

's one reason why I love Hickey of the Beast by funwithrage so much. It's teens. Being friends. And kicking ass.

Also, no billowing gowns or dead chicks on the cover. ;-)
Exactly. Perspective is key, and I feel like it's missing.

firynze

5 years ago

gehayi

5 years ago

I'm looking forward to a list, too.

I'm writing a YA series - girl prefers not to get involved in romance because it interferes with her career, but sidekick (boy/her brother)makes some bad (boy) choices then gets the right guy in the end. Trouble is, it's so unlike Twilight I don't know whether it stands a chance!!
...okay, see, a list will take time, and may not happen for a long, long time. Longer if people keep asking me for it, because then it starts making me tired even before the work begins. :(

There is hope! There are non-romance settings!

trektone

5 years ago

kyrielle

5 years ago

I continue to be impressed by Rachel Caine's Morganville Vampires YA series. Yes, vampires, but the vamps, by and large, aren't good guys. They always serve vamp interests first, with few exceptions. Our heroine is a smart, geeky young girl, who triumphs through perseverance, strength and brains. Her boyfriend has faults and flaws, but he insists on waiting for sex til she's legal, and when they do come together it's natural and simple and joyful. The other couple in the main cast is a bit different, but are also stong examples of a healthy relationship and non-stupid victim culture.
I am not anti-vamp! And Rachel is lovely, I can't imagine she'd do a whole series of victims.

damedini

5 years ago

When I was the target age for the YA market, there was no YA market. There were the books you read before, and there were the books you were meant to read later, but only Scholastic books really had anything, yanno, specific to my age at the time.

Here's a good example of the kind of book available. Any wonder I went for the Star Trek Log books, script novelizations by James Blish and anything anything anything by Marian Zimmer Bradley, Uncle Ike and so on? Book in question? Chick with a seriously psychotic mother, but nobody notices. Until the mother tries to kill herself. I think I still have my copy hanging out somewhere.)

I also bring your attention to the whole 'Killing Us Softly' set of documentaries as an adjuct to the article cited - this is what I also got when I was the target age for today's YA market. Believe it or not, in high school theater arts class.

There's a part of me that is poking me in the side reminding me that without conflict, that absolute sense of danger, what is the point of trying to tell a story, any story...but at the same time, some resignation seeps in. Thirty plus years later, and we've only shifted the issue downward, age-wise. It's still there. It's still considered valid and sells stuff. Bah. Hey, Jerry Springer still has a show. Let's write books with the same stuff! It'll make a mint! BAH TWICE.

Here's another thing that bugs me. YA - is for all genders, right? Then why does it *require* romance? (I want to see the straight 16 year old guy reading Twilight, and not for the lolz. Will bribe with burgers.) Having had the surfeit of nephews for the last umpity-ump years (and have a son coming up fast), I'd like to have some books to hand them, and you know what? I hand them manga instead. Sports manga. And they love it, but so far I haven't come across a single thing in the YA market that has rang any chimes there. That? Is also not of the happy-making.

I have no answers except to keep opening my yap about it.
Have you tried them on:

Chris Crutcher
Gary Paulsen
Jean Craighead-George
Terry Pratchett

Also Lois Mcmaster Bujold was being shelved in the YA section when I was a kid which pretty much changed my life, you could do a lot worse than handing a kid The Warrior's apprentice

briargrey

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

"boy meets girl, girl and boy actually have interests in common, girl makes an informed decision, boy gets girl."

Hmm. I'd say that in the best case, the last two clauses should really be "boy and girl both make informed decisions, boy and girl get each other" rather than "boy gets girl." In other words, I think part of the problem with the other paradigm is the idea of one partner in the relationship acquiring the other. It makes the courtship process fundamentally adversarial (i.e. the girl has something, herself, that the guy needs to "get") rather than collaborative.
Very true. I was trying to mirror the classic "boy meets girl, boy gets girl, boy loses girl," but I found it problematic at the same time. Still is.

branna

5 years ago

i am another who LOVES YA fiction:) I like adult stuff but I read a lot of the YA. I won't ask for a list as others have done so, how about the odd suggestion instead, as in when you read something particularly good you post here or somewhere, recommending it? Don't have to give a review or reasons why, just: read ------ enjoyed it a lot:)
Honestly, I already do SO MUCH, if I try to add one more task to my list, I will stop doing anything at all. I can't. I just can't. There is no more room for effort in my life.
Thank you for all the links. I'm still reading through them but YA can do so much better.
Agreed.
I generally browse the YA section of the book store, but I don't often find something to my liking. One of my biggest finds was by a local author Catherine Jinks, and it was called The Reformed Vampire Support Group. I bought it for my wife and she liked it so much I read it too. If you want an antidote to Twilight or it's many imitators TRVSG is a good place to look. I find that some YA authors do really quirky romance fairy type work, which I tend to enjoy Justine Larbelestier's How To Ditch Your Fairy and Laura Ashby's Fairy Bad Day were two along those lines that were a heap of fun to read.
Catherine Jinks is terrific. I love her Evil Genius series too.

yellowblackhaze

5 years ago

anna_en_route

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

sexy teenage wendigo living in Key West (YOU KNOW IT WOULD BE AWESOME)

It would be awesome. I would buy it.

Regarding #6... I must admit, it's better to have a partner who can help solve things than one who adds to them! (Although a lot of the solving mine did was being A: 2000 miles away from the dysfunctional home life, and B: listening to me rant and affirming that no, I was not wrong to think that Things Were Not Right. Validation is Important.) But it does have to be real-solving, not "I waltz in and sort things to my standards and you are grateful."
Agreed.
I'm doing NaNoWriMo this year, and I changed plots entirely at around 4,000 words from meditative YA scifi with themes like "the universe is a complicated but amazing place" to an urban fantasy YA with themes like "female main character is a badass fencer/magician who is also in the SCA". At first I felt some trepidation in switching, since I thought the scifi was more "respectable," almost - at least it was saying something about the future of society.

But the more I write of my plot, the less I regret changing it. All I really want to read is YA urban fantasy/paranormal with strong worldbuilding, awesome female characters kicking ass, and preferably a Bechdel pass, but apparently that's too much to ask for - so I have to write it instead.

(Also, I was tickled pink to see an Old Kingdom Trilogy reference - I'm rereading Lirael right now, and that series continues to be one of my favorites. Between the inventiveness of the magic, the zombies, the awesome female characters with swords and magic, and Mogget, it's definitely a series I think anyone who's interested in YA or fantasy should read.)
I approve of you writing it. I really, really do.
I have a fiction dislike rule that some may find weird: I rarely look at serial killer fiction. For the most part, serial killer fiction depends on a string of young women who are all dead before the book even begins, and for some reason I'm just too soured on that trope. Why did you have to invent and kill people, nubile women in particular, before the book even began? It annoys me. I'd rather begin a book without dead people in general, though. I'm not big on murder mystery at all.

(Yes, Silence of the Lambs was a fabulous film. But now I'm allowed to put that genre to rest, as far as my attention is concerned.)
No, that makes sense. I like serial killers, but I can absolutely see why someone wouldn't. (In fiction. I like them in fiction. Not in my living room.)

Deleted comment

I think mine would need more than a case, at this point...
I love reading your thoughts on other writings and trends in writings. I would love to hear the books you find outstanding either positively or negatively but that wouldn't be PC of an author to call out other authors for writing crap. Instead I think I will see if a group of friends might like to get together once a month and talk about what we are reading and what we like/dislike about it. You have got me thinking once again.
Yeah, I pretty much won't go "OMG this sucks" in public unless I think the book is actively in need of a warning label.
I just wrote a response to this, re: dead girls on covers. It honestly didn't bother me until I looked a few things up myself. It's way worse than I suspected.
I have linked your response! Thank you for pointing it out!

glitter_n_gore

5 years ago


I've noticed this dead girl thing. I have this vague thought that its often about passiveness. If you're dead, well, that absolves you of responsibility for having agency in your life, don't it? (poor English intentional)

This alarms me. Because that's not how I was raised, and it's not what the media my parents gave me free reign to and encouraged me to consume taught me. Particularly my father, who's a solidly blue color auto mechanic, was in the military until I turned 18, and happens to be a raging feminist (the sexual revolution didn't start happening my mother's family, sadly, until it started to occur to people that I was going to hit thirty without breeding and when I said I wanted to be a lawyer, I really MEANT it and not in a little girl I WANT TO BE A PRINCESS!!!!! way.)

It utterly baffles me why, for instance, we don't see more stable couples in fiction, generally. My husband walks around bemoaning the lack of a Nick and Nora Charles. I haven't seen the Thin Man, but I can agree with the sentiment that the roller-coastery early stuff eats up all the air time. To be perfectly frank, I'm not very interested in it. I did not enjoy going through it. Ever. I did not find it thrilling. I found it annoying. I hated the process of dating. I hated the process of getting married, too, for that matter. I was the anti-bridezilla. I would have run away and eloped in Vegas if I could've had my way.

So bride fantasies do nothing for me. Crushy lusty fantasies do nothing for me. But long term relationship dynamics are interesting. And I don't think I'm such a unique and special snowflake in that, either.

Getting aside from the rape thing (not that I don't think it's important) but I don't think we're doing girls a service with this whole "you fall madly in love with your sole mate young, you have a big fancy wedding (maybe) and then life is glorious." storyline. We shouldn't be teaching girls to solely identify themselves as a Person In A Relationship.

That's the thing that made me finally lose it with Twilight: Bella insists that her entire life needs to revolve around Being In A Relationship With Edward. That IS her life. And Edward's being a bossy prick when he tells her to go out and have a life but you know, I don't think he's *wrong.* Because I'm sitting her blinking and going "Okay, Bella, congrats. You're a vampire. Now what are you going to do all day? Sit around and sparkle? Good for you!"

I'm fortunate, insomuch as that I didn't date that many jerks, I'm in a stable happy marriage with a wonderful, nice man. I appreciate this. But my marriage isn't my whole life. Not even close. My relationship with my husband is great and important and I'm still a miserable wreck if I'm not doing something productive in society. And I really, really doubt I'm that unusual.

I think you're right, and it's about passivity, being a "princess" in the stereotyped "it's just who you are, and you never have to work for it, ever" sense. But I don't know what to do about it.
You can't be TOTALLY done dating the crazy. I'm crazier than any werewolf wnnabe. heh. Ok, also, gay, and terminal, and on the other coast...but still. LOL
Hee. :)
Your little checklist up there just made me feel a LOT better about my YA relationships. When my YA novel is finished -- probably sometime next year if I keep up the pace -- I think you'll be pleased by a few things including but not limited to:

1) Characters who hook up usually have at least two things in common besides the fact that they're both good-looking.
2) The one female character whose life has become all about her boyfriend realizes fairly early on that THIS IS A PROBLEM.
3) Gay. Jew. Teen. Romance. L'chaim, boys.
Okay, now I'm friending you on LJ just to keep up to date on this book. A Gay Jew Teen Romance is everything I never knew I wanted.

manwe_iluvendil

5 years ago

crainefish

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

Have I mentioned that the cover of Discount Armageddon is totally awesome? And the girl's alive! She's ALIVE! Bwahahaha!
Yes!

It delights me.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! I'm still working through all the links. I love to read children's and YA novels but I hadn't noticed this. (I have noticed how many book covers in all ages lack the woman's head or face. I still need to write about that one.) It's also useful because I've been applying for library jobs and this is the kind of thing I should know about when patrons start talking to me about books.

You're not the only one who devoured those Lurlene McDaniel books as a teenager. What was it about terminal illness that got us so hooked?
i LOVED lurlene mcdaniel. but were there actual dead girls on any of those covers?

amyaderman

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

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