Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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Famous people make you batshit: one more note from SDCC.

First, go and read this post from Wil Wheaton. It's okay. I can wait.

You're back? Cool. Okay, so...

The San Diego International Comic Convention (and really, any of the large media conventions, but SDCC more than most) is simply crawling with famous people, ranging from your stealth famous (most directors, producers, and writers) and formerly famous (the obscure character actors and aging child stars selling autographs near the rear of the dealer's hall) to your currently huge famous (the cast of True Blood) and your geek darlings (the cast of Eureka). Where someone falls on this scale during the convention may have absolutely no relation to where they'd be on the scale out in the non-convention world, although it mostly works as an enhancement of fame, not a reduction. Britney Spears would be mobbed at SDCC, no matter how few fans admit to liking her music, but I doubt Felicia Day is going to get stalked by paparazzi if she tries to go out for a burger.

If you attend SDCC, the odds are good that you will see famous people. Buying breakfast at the deli! Crossing the street! Trying in vain to get some shopping done in the exhibitor's hall! Walking really, really fast toward the nearest bathroom! Standing on the sidewalk with a stranger's arm around their shoulders, smiling graciously for a camera! This is going to happen. It is unavoidable. And I, from the bottom of my heart, make this request of you:

Don't go batshit because you're breathing the same air as a famous person.

Nathan Fillion is awesome. He's a funny guy, he's nice, he's considerate, and he worked on one of my favorite horror movies. He does not, however, give off a chemical signal in his sweat that causes my ladyparts to explode and my brain to stop functioning above a third-grade level. Stephen King is one of my personal heroes, and wrote three of my five favorite books. That does not mean that he intended Annie Wilkes from Misery to be taken as an ideal of fan behavior.

I am, by the standards of any media convention, a fourth-string celebrity at best. I'm a writer, which makes me invisible; I don't wear miniskirts or preach controversial opinions or have a TV show based off my work; I'm relatively new on the scene. I'm a very small fish, and I appreciate that, because even at my current, erm, fish size index, I've been stopped while walking someone, interrupted while very clearly doing something, and, my personal favorite, grabbed—physically grabbed, by people I do not know, and did not consent to being grabbed by—on my way into the bathroom.

Now, I don't know about you and your strange Earth ways, but on my planet, when someone is walking briskly toward a bathroom, they probably intend to do something involving bodily wastes and a toilet. Consider that I drink roughly four liters of Diet Dr Pepper a day during the average con. Now consider the danger of grabbing me while I'm on my way to make some room for more soda.

And there are people who say "well, you signed up for this" when a famous person, regardless of fish size index, has issues with being grabbed or interrupted or otherwise poked at in public. But at the end of the day, no one, no matter how famous, no matter how big of a fish, signed a contract saying "anyone who wants to can now grab you at any time, have a nice day."

These are the circumstances under which it is acceptable to touch a stranger:

1. If they have a hornet or something on their shoulder and you're brushing it off.
2. If you're shoving them out of the way of a Martian ray gun blast.
3. If they're standing on your foot and you need to tap them in the shoulder to get them off you.
4. If they just dropped, like, their wallet or something, and shouts of "Sir? Sir!" or "Ma'am? Ma'am!" aren't getting their attention.

There may be others for this list, but you get the idea. These are the circumstances under which it is NOT acceptable to touch a stranger, regardless of whether they're famous:

1. Because you want to.
2. Because they're there.
3. Because you feel like you have a personal connection to them, even though you've never met.
4. Because then you can tell your friends about that person you touched.

...again, there may (will) be others on this list, but you get the idea. Saying "Excuse me? Mr. Whedon? I love your work, could I get your autograph?" when you see him in the hall is cool. Following him into the men's room is not. Camping out in front of his hotel, also not. And the coolest thing of all is taking "no" as a legitimate, and understandable, answer.

Please, treat everyone with the same respect you want applied to you, whether they're famous or not. Do not separate people from their friends and family, or grab them, or stop them from getting to the bathroom. If you wouldn't let someone do it to you/your significant other/your kids, don't do it to someone else.

Don't let proximity to fame make you batshit, and these conventions will be a lot more fun, for everyone.
Tags: cranky blonde is cranky, don't be dumb, fandom, post-con
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I'd already read about how Wil Wheaton was treated. If you had to endure some of the same, that starts to sound like a trend. People can be such idiots, and being in a crowd seems to encourage their idiocy. Sorry you had to deal with that.
It's been going on for a while, honestly; this year was just especially bad. I only had my two stalkers and some awkwardness. Others had much, much worse.
My mom tells stories of when popular actors and stuff went to small-medium size fan run conventions. Of room parties where, while they were treated as guests, they were as blitzed (in at least one case moreso) than any of the fans there.

There was chatting, there was camaraderie, and most of all the fans knew that Herb Jefferson Jr <> Boomer, George Takei <> Sulu, The guy hiding in the bathroom where the drinks were because he was shy about being at a room party (that my mom came to the chest of) was not Chewie, and that the guy that worked in the Vader suit was just a nice guy whose voice did not fit the part.

I grew up on stories of "celebrities" as people who really, no matter how gracious, sometimes just want to get their coffee and eat their breakfast in peace.
Wow.

That's amazing.

tiferet

5 years ago

5. If someone is falling and you need to catch them or risk having them go splat. Particularly if you are braced and they are not (i.e. on public transit) and you've estimated the risk to your/their body if you fail.

Other than that, really no. Would you go up and touch a stranger in the street? No? Then don't do it just because they have a face you've seen before. Being around famous people isn't a license to forget your manners. Famous people are just like you, only possibly crankier.
Fair addition!

brightlotusmoon

5 years ago

Deleted comment

I have a #5 for your circumstances under which it is NOT acceptable to touch a stranger, regardless of whether they're famous:

The both of you not paying attention as you go in opposite directions on the staircase causing you to collide, both wipe out & tumble down the stairs together.

It happened to me & an author I like at a con I was at one time. Neither of us was hurt though & he autographed my copy of his newest book that had fallen out of my bag when he picked it up for me =) )
Hee. Okay, that's a good addition.

mariadkins

5 years ago

Well said. I have zero fame, but I can see how much this would be annoying and sometimes frightening. Respecting personal space is a must.
It can be seriously scary. One of my stalkers at SDCC was three times my size.
"fish size index" is made of win. Now I want an excuse to use this term.
Good luck finding one!

guruwench

5 years ago

mariadkins

5 years ago

The entitlement of some people boggles your mind. I stood and watched someone throw themselves at Jensen Ackles at a fan convention. Twice. She was (quite rightly) thrown out of the building. When she tried to get back in she cited PMS as an excuse. There were 800 people at that convention, predominantly woman. You could lay money on 100 of them having that particular excuse but no-one else felt the need to launch themselves at.. well anyone that didn't know.

People need to think, you don't actually know these people, and you are a stranger to them. If you wouldn't (or shouldn't) do it to a stranger in the street - why do you think you have the right to do it to someone who's famous?
Exactly. If you wouldn't do it to a stranger, don't do it to a person to whom you are a stranger.

Still don't!

gongxian

5 years ago

I am a really, really small fish. Even I have had the experience of the person who pursued me into the bathroom. It was scary. And inappropriate. And it did not make me want to be friends with that person, which is what I think they wanted.
The one time I was in a room with a Really Famous Person, I sneaked looks at them as they talked to their friends, and whispered with my friends how cool it was to see that person in the flesh. That was it. Nothing under the sun would have made me approach them: they were busy getting on with their life and that was nothing to do with me at all.
I had someone inform me that we were going to be friends now, it had been decided.

I have been creeped out ever since.

la_marquise_de_

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

biomekanic

5 years ago

brightlotusmoon

5 years ago

biomekanic

5 years ago

biguglymandoll

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

Squik. :-( sympathies! Though I must admit that if you did piss on an overeager fan, there would be exciting amounts of publicity shortly thereafter.
I didn't, but if they hadn't decided to let go, it might've happened.
I turn into a shy 5 year old whenever I meet someone at a 'con who I don't already know. Friend of mine got a good chuckle at me when I met Jeffrey Combs at a 'con, she actually had to remind me to ask for photo with him. Same thing happened when I met filkertom, I'd exchanged emails and LJ comments and whatnot with him for years...meet in person, I can barely say I like his music. And normally I'm great with meeting people, but something about a 'con turns me shy.
Shy might be better than aggressively entitled, all things considered.

vulpine137

5 years ago

catnip13

5 years ago

vulpine137

5 years ago

sandy_williams

5 years ago

vulpine137

5 years ago

I admit to having written a cranky letter to an actor as a result of being confused about the difference between the actor and the character, but I was about eight at the time.

I have approached moderately well known people at conventions and said things like, "Excuse me, are you $NAME? My friend $FRIEND subscribes to your 'zine and I just wanted to say how much I like your art. Thanks! Bye now!"
Being eight forgives you a LOT. I used to be super-mad at Robert Englund for being Freddy Kreuger, because I didn't understand that actors like to eat.
Eegs, I'm so sorry to hear you've had to deal with this. I read Wil Wheaton's post about this before, and was horrified at the nerve of some people. Still am, actually.
It's impressive. In a bad way.
Ugh. That's awful.

I find I don't even end up approaching people I would love to just say how much I love their work, because I don't want to come across a crazyfan (and am terminally shy). It boggles me how people can act like they're entitled to attention from anyone. Just, ugh.
I'm much the same. If you're someone I'm really in awe of, I have trouble going anywhere near you, much less accosting you.

bunsen_h

5 years ago

Deleted comment

She is really awesome to meet in person, isn't she? I was so worried that I'd set up this mythical Seanan in my head that the reality would disappoint. But then she knew who I was, and got all disappointed there was a table in the way so she couldn't hug me and Josh right away, and we got to have a fascinating conversation, and nobody could make me stop talking about how awesome she is for months.

Deleted comment

alicetheowl

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

alicetheowl

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

I'm *not* shy, and I do say hello to people I don't know that I recognise and want to thank for their work. But I'm boggled that people don't treat other people like people. Particularly since I was a babyfan back when the world was smaller.

I mean, I realise some people have trouble reading social cues because of their brain chemistry/wiring (and I do have my off days, though they make me withdrawn, not entitled) but it's pretty easy to tell when someone is heading for the loo at a brisk pace or in a hurry to get somewhere else or having an intent conversation with a bunch of other people that probably ought not be interrupted.

There is a relatively obscure actor of whom I am a huge fan (not Adrian, lol, I remember when he was obscure!) and this girl who also liked him friended me on LJ, then proceeded to tell me how she had stalked this poor guy and made such a nuisance of herself that I knew she was the reason he had locked up his myspace and pulled himself out of the contactable universe. (Basically, she got a chance to meet him while he was filming, spoke with him, ended up dancing with him at a party and then decided that because he had been nice and friendly to her, HE WAS THE LOVE OF HER LIFE. Which she wanted me to agree with her about despite the fact that he used to have pictures of himself kissing a guy on his myspace.)

She still does not understand why I was so MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAN to her.
Ow. Just .. ow.

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

tiferet

5 years ago

I can't even imagine what goes through a person's head to make them act like a moron to someone they admire, or even have heard of through their fame. I tend to obsessively review my behavior after the fact to make sure I didn't horribly embarrass myself. Not that there's anything I can do to fix it if I did, usually, but I would be mortified to learn I did anything that makes someone I admire remember me as "that awkward, weird lady," or any other negative label.

I've had a bunch of positive interactions with people that I still walk away from feeling embarrassed, because I'm sure I did or said something weird. I feel like it's more of a reflection on how gracious or kind they are that they didn't actively flinch away from me.

So when people do things that are universally known to be no-no's, I can only shake my head and wonder just how badly they must be wired.
Me, too.
Frankly, far too many people (not just fans with a bad grasp of "personal space") need to be reminded that grabbing someone is *assault*. And that they *can* be prosecuted for it.

Alas, the odds of it actually happening are slim. :-(

Sad but true.
That is seriously Not Cool. :( I've met a few well-known people in my time (and almost without exception, they're wonderful folks), but it would never occur to me to treat them like what you and Wil are describing. It just... makes no sense.

Really sorry that you had that experience.
It's bizarre, and it makes conventions less awesome.
I remember Nathan Fillion telling a story of a fan who, upon seeing Fillion on the street, tipped his hat and said "Captain." Nothing more, just "Captain." That seems like about as classy and respectful as a fan can get, and I aspire to that sort of fandom.
that's beautiful.

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

Don't go crazy because you're breathing the same air as a famous person.

Indeed. Still, this made me giggle. At FandomFest in July, I spent the greater chunk of the weekend talking to Edward Furlong. Only I didn't realize he was Edward Furlong until about this time last week. o.O

physically grabbed, by people I do not know, and did not consent to being grabbed by

Anybody ever does that to me is likely to get backhanded or Karate tossed, sorry to say. I don't take well to being touched, never have. And if it's a stranger, well, let's say I don't exactly run screaming.

And there are people who say "well, you signed up for this" when a famous person, regardless of fish size index, has issues with being grabbed or interrupted or otherwise poked at in public

I've never understood that line of thinking. :/

Saying "Excuse me? Mr. Whedon? I love your work, could I get your autograph?" when you see him in the hall is cool. Following him into the men's room is not

When I saw Curtis Armstrong eating breakfast alone at FandomFest, I did go up to him and introduce myself and apologized profusely about interrupting his breakfast. He's a wonderful person, and we ended up discussing the book he was reading - a biography of Orson Welles. lol Follow someone into the restroom? I can't even imagine.

If you wouldn't let someone do it to you/your significant other/your kids, don't do it to someone else

Amen.
I don't get it either, but people do it.

jenk

August 11 2011, 21:34:27 UTC 5 years ago Edited:  August 11 2011, 21:40:35 UTC

When I saw Nils Lofgren in the lobby of my hotel the morning after a Springsteen show, I said hi - in the form "I don't want to keep you but I wanted to say I loved the show last night." I would've been fine with him just nodding or saying "Thanks" but we did chat a bit.

That said, the chance I had to meet Bruce? I passed. I figured I'd just turn into a sobbing mess, and why throw that a man who was about to do his 12th of 15 shows in NJ?

On the sound tech side, I've learned that someone who's all squee about possibly rubbing shoulders with performers is usually not who I want to have assist with sound setup or teardown. The more someone gushes about a performer, the more I want to bodily block that person from going near the performer and their equipment. I don't fancy that I'm providing security per se, just that someone who's so! excited! at! helping! their favorite performer seems to have real trouble focusing on the tech details.
Yeah, I've had a similar experience re: the biggest fans are the worst workers, when it comes to handling that person's needs.
And there are people who say "well, you signed up for this" when a famous person, regardless of fish size index, has issues with being grabbed or interrupted or otherwise poked at in public

What? No. No no no no no. NO. Nobody signs up for giving up control over themselves or their personal time, ever. Fame does not mean that you automatically become public property. NOTHING means you become public property, except maybe taking public office, and even then they have very serious men in dark glasses to explain to people why, though your time may be public, your body and personal space are not.

NO ONE is public property, and that argument makes me want to punch people.
though your time may be public, your body and personal space are not.

Rock on.

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

I aspire to be a good fan. I know only one Famous Person, and that person had been educating me on treatment of FPs as real people. I'm making an effort to treat that person like one of the crowd, don't put your drink on that wood and pass the chips, please. So far, so good, I think.

My goal is to keep my cool at WorldCon, and not go crazy in any direction. I'm limiting myself to one signature per author/artist, and only one "hello" attempt per day unless reciprocated or sought (such as the Liaden parties).
These are all good goals.
Seanan, I enjoyed this and certainly could have used these pointers when I was an 18 year old fangirling over a certain Mousketeer. Although, years later, he and I are friends now and we look back on my craziness and laugh, so it worked out OK. Helps that he was as young as I was.

Ever since then, I've mostly met celebs in a function that served as a meet and greet. So hugs and pictures and greetings were totally OK and encouraged. I'm also an author fangirl, but because the kidlit community is so small, I've been attacked by some authors rather than me attacking them! (I loved every moment of it!) I've also been lucky enough to have met some very gracious celebs. They treated me like a friend, which is really nice. Maybe they sensed that I wasn't a crazy that crazy 18-year old anymore, or I just came across as friendly and OK, but all of my encounters have been generally pleasant. :)

I try to respect their space and their time but I love it when they treat me as more than someone to sign an autograph for. And seeing ANYONE of note in the bathroom or eating dinner? Yea, I'd leave them the heck alone. That seems like it should be common courtesy, no?
Common courtesy can be awfully uncommon.

filkferengi

5 years ago

"Crazy" is such a horribly fucking ableist epithet and should not be used in these situations. Ever.

I don't disagree that the behaviour is intensely problematic and should not happen, or with the sentiment of your post or Wil's, but the frequent use of that word just leaves me furious and really not caring as much as I otherwise might or ought about the point of the post. Please don't.
Your point is absolutely valid, and completely correct. But what word do you suggest be used in its place? I would never use "crazy" to describe genuine mental illness (as someone who comes pre-bundled with both depression and OCD, I have a lot of occasion to talk about these things). In our current cultural syntax, however, I don't have another word that means "inappropriate behavior, verging on mania, which can often present symptoms congruent with forms of mental illness, without actually implying genuine disorder."

I'm not trying to mock, I'm genuinely curious. Because I don't have another word to use here, and words are supposed to be my medium.

trialia

5 years ago

seanan_mcguire

5 years ago

paksenarrion2

5 years ago

tiferet

5 years ago

scamis

5 years ago

scamis

5 years ago

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