Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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Money for nothing and your kicks for free.

So I'm a crazy toy collector. This is not news. I spend hours upon hours stalking toy stores and flea markets and auction sites; I follow toy news blogs and read all the latest developments in the world of little plastic people. I'm a play-with-it collector, rather than a leave-it-in-the-box, look-at-it-smugly collector, and my room is basically the one I used to fantasize about when I was a little girl. The biggest scolding Thomas has ever received is when he whacked Draculaura off the shelf to see what would happen. (What happened? He got yelled at and felt bad. He has not repeated this offense.)

Being a crazy toy collector means, among other things, that I wind up acquiring and treasuring some things which are limited, and some things which are no longer available through anything but the action figure black market. It's all part of the game. And that includes the limited dolls made for the San Diego Comic Convention, or for the various Tonner Doll Conventions.

I have a point, I swear.

While I was in New York, I missed the 2011 Tonner Doll Convention, because, well, BEA. Several people on my Evangeline Ghastly Doll Collectors mailing list attended the Tonner convention, and were excited to get the convention-exclusive dolls. They started lining up at 7AM to get them. Supplies were exceedingly limited, and not everyone got a doll. There was much wailing and weeping and gnashing of teeth. And the first dolls started showing up on eBay less than twenty minutes later.

Now, these are dolls which cost $150 new. Not cheap, but understandable for a limited-edition vinyl ball-jointed doll. And they went up on eBay at $450 each. Why? Because people would pay it. The same thing is happening right now in my Monster High community. People who can't get to San Diego are ordering dolls from eBay scalpers who promise them the exclusives at three or even four times the original purchase price. (These are people who don't even have dolls yet, mind you; they're selling doll futures, the promise that they will go to the convention and somehow find a way to obtain all these toys.) It isn't limited to exclusive dolls, either. Toy scalpers regularly clear the shelves of "new and hot" toys, listing them on auction sites at two to four times original purchase price.

This bothers me. I understand supply and demand. I understand "I bought this doll and now I don't want her and I'd like to make back my purchase price," or even "I bought her and I want my purchase price plus five bucks for me standing in line." But there's something that just seems faintly scummy about going into a collector situation and buying things to resell at that kind of markup when you know there are other people in that line. Saying "I'm doing it for the people who can't be here, I have to charge extra to pay for my time and effort" doesn't really wash for me unless you're doing it at the last minute, after all the people who are there have had the opportunity to get the toys for themselves.

I wish we didn't do this sort of thing to each other. I wish we'd share, and say "I need one for me, and you need one for you, and maybe if there's some left over, I'll take an extra for selling later," instead of forcing the conventions to put tighter and tighter restrictions on people, because they feel like we just can't be trusted. Maybe they feel that way because we keep proving, over and over again, that we can't be.

And it sucks.
Tags: cranky blonde is cranky, don't be dumb, toys are nice
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  • 60 comments
I'm with you on this. I tracked down a LEGO set I was after & was totally boggled. Original retail price: $5 - Resale price w/ mangled box: $99.95. Hell, even the resale prices for the minifigures is insane. $50 for one minifigure?! Insanity...
I get raising the price on older toys, and on really rare ones (ie, "one out of every hundred boxes is a...") in the randomized collectibles, but the resale on new things that happen to be limited is nuts.
A few of us like to get the Halloween Barbie each year, and post if we find one, if a store has a dupe from a previous year, and bitch in general about Target putting out PINK Halloween dolls. We dont go to extremes, and we do share.

I am working on my second coven of dolls.
Yay!
I collect Asian BJD's and it's almost the exact same thing.

Some of the more limited dolls by the more popular companies go for a pretty penny brand new - but when they hit the second hand market the price skyrockets even more.

I cringe when I think of how much I've forked over for the three I've bought off the second hand market. If you don't want it because you love it - let someone else who loves the item buy it and enjoy it without having to fork over a kidney.

Very sucky indeed.
I get that it's a business, but there's "I am selling things that have been unavailable for a year," and there's "I have intentionally limited the supply so I can buy a boat."

This is why I haven't moved into Asian BJDs. All the ones I would want get hit by scalpers.

kthanna

6 years ago

kyrielle

6 years ago

Most of the blame goes on the buyers. If people weren't willing to put up $450 for those dolls, the scalpers would have no market. When people think of these dolls as status symbols they must have at any price (or because paying three times the price gives them three times the bragging rights), someone's going to provide them what they want.
I think it's more complicated than that. I have a complete Monster High collection. I don't want to pay those prices. But if the scalpers can set them there because of desperation, or because people don't know better? I can wind up finishing my set at those costs.

beable

6 years ago

madfilkentist

6 years ago

amberfox

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

amberfox

6 years ago

lilrongal

6 years ago

beable

6 years ago

keristor

6 years ago

scifantasy

6 years ago

keristor

6 years ago

jennygriffee

June 15 2011, 20:08:07 UTC 6 years ago Edited:  June 15 2011, 20:12:16 UTC

Being a doll collector myself, I feel your pain. I've had to sell off several lately (long story short: layoffs are brutal), and yes, I've auctioned them off, but the starting prices were pretty damn low -- in some cases, half retail. (Most of them didn't pass retail price, either, and I'm fine with that.) I've felt too guilty about gouging anyone to jack it up artificially. If people voluntarily bid to crazy amounts, well, so goes the market, and I'm not in a position to say no right now, hence the auctioning -- but I'm not going to take a $150 Ellowyne and intentionally try to get $400, especially since I know what it's like trying to get a hold of something I had no easy access to, and having to pay out the ass for the privilege. (Don't even ask me what I paid for the Steampunk Gone Wilde set. oh god.)

and yes, I'd love to get the Comic-Con exclusive Ghoulia, but there's no way in hell that's happening right now. Sigh.
Yeah, I saw the prices on that set and just cringed. It's a good thing I'm not a huge steampunk girl. As it stands, I got really lucky, and got some Evangeline items I really wanted by haunting eBay right before the convention.

jennygriffee

6 years ago

Having been married to a coin & stamp collector, I can honestly say that people will pay whatever if it's something they want. That's the crux of the matter. It's only worth what it will bring at auction - and you never really know what that is.

I also made reproduction antique porcelain dolls before AIDS did the number on composition and BJDs actually got underway. THAT was fun. I look at it now and blink at the money involved. The hours I would have to work in trade to pay for that hobby? Yikes. I did buy the 11" 'starter' type in Japan (hey, best memento, right?) but even that one was nearly four times as much as the fashion dolls of the same stature here. (The dolls? In boxes. No place to put them out, and that's been the case for decades now. Not giving up, but it does impact the decision making process.)

(You think this is bad, try dealing with people selling autographs. *grabs the brain bleach*)
Ah, the free market.
That is precisely why I watched the sales of the low-performing PS3 when it first came out with glee. Not because I wanted PlayStation to fail; I think the game market is better for the platform competition. It was because I KNEW the initial glut of sales was due to scalpers snatching up the much-hyped third generation of the PlayStation to sell for a profit on eBay. Two months later, all the eBay listings were going for below cost, and the Wii was skyrocketing in sales.

I felt it served the greedy, greedy scalpers right, buying something up just to inflate the price and paying the price. They didn't learn their lesson, of course; they found a new gadget or Christmas's "must-have" item, and profited off that. *sigh*

I HATE scalpers.
YES.

OMG, yes.

Such hate.

alicetheowl

6 years ago

We were having this same conversation this weekend about Comic-Con and the reason they could never have some sort of ticket system for popular panels: because people would sell the crap out of them.

When I had two tickets for the Joss Whedon/Dollhouse signing a couple years ago, the woman was hesitant to give me two wristbands, even though I assured her I had called a friend of mine to come down for the other one. Finally, she gave it to me and told me not to sell it.

And it just boggled my mind because the thought hadn't even occurred to me. If I hadn't been able to get a hold of one of my friends to use it, I would have just given it to some needy soul. Why do people have to be dicks?
I do not know. But I wish they would stop.
At my second high school, which was private (and which I could attend only because my parents suddenly inherited a second property from a relative and mortgaged it to the hilt), we had vending machines in the student common rooms (I know) where you could buy cans of drink for about $1.20 each. One day, one of the machines malfunctioned and started spewing out free cans. Instantly about three guys leaped up and started grabbing the cans, using their blazers as makeshift bags to help scoop up armfuls. Obviously, this depleted the free can supply pretty quicksmart, so only a few other people managed to snag individual drinks.

And then, the first act of the guys who'd cornered the market? These insanely rich kids who already had more money than God? Was to walk up to every other student in the common room and offer to sell them the cans for a dollar each. It was pure, mongrel-faced capitalism: we'd all seen them get the cans for free, they sure as hell didn't need the cash, and even though they'd each snagged more than they could possibly drink or carry, people still bought from them, because it was twenty cents cheaper than going to the machine. And all I could think was, "This, right here, is what's wrong with our fucking species."
...yes.

That really is what's wrong with our fucking species. Jesus.

drcpunk

6 years ago

I'm not a collector, but I do go to a fair amount of concerts, and you get the same thing - scalpers buying ten or twenty tickets and then reselling them on ebay at exorbitant prices for the people who just missed out themselves. They're trying to control it, by restricting the number of tickets you can buy and to four or even two at a time, and by invalidating tickets seen on ebay, but it still happens. And I don't pay the ebay prices... but for your favourite band and their only time in Australia, a lot of people would.
Ugh.

Yes.
I remember seeing it happen with comic books, magic the gathering cards, beanie babies.

The other problem with speculators is that they are an artificial bubble. When the bubble bursts manufacturers and fans are left holding the bag.
Yeah. And that just makes it worse.
Amen! I used to be a comic collector and saw it happen many times. I even had a friend who would buy special issues of titles he wasn't even interested in and had no intention of reading just so he could hang onto them and sell them later to desperate collectors for a higher price.
...

Dammit. People suck.

drcpunk

6 years ago

That's why we need a new 'thing' to hand out at conventions. Called 'Leave Some For The Next Person'.
YES.
Yeah, I understand. For the most part, I've been lucky enough not to desperately want limited edition items, but I get that itchy collector's urge now and again. Since in the comics world, the limited edition stuff is almost always just a variant cover, I can live with it, because I'm much more interested in what's inside the cover.

But I remember the Astro City story that showed up in a Wizard-exclusive #0 issue once that I had to wait for years to read in a collection. And it was even more annoying, because it immediately became my favorite story in the series once I finally got to read it...
Would that be "The Nearness of You"? Printed in the "Confessions" TPB?

Yeah, that's definitely worth it.

("No one forgets. No one.")

billroper

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

My mom collects dolls, I know she has a few Tonners. I boggle at the prices some of those things go for. Just... wow.
It's pretty nuts.
That is so awful. I've been lucky with finding my dolls stalking the local Toys R Us, but oh.
I found Dead Tired Frankie today!
All throughout my bookshelves, as you glance at the spines, a Buffy figure or Steampunk Wonder Woman figure will pop up. I am a firm believer in playing with the toys that I purchase. Currently I have 3 Monster Dolls near my bedside table: Draculaura, Lagoona Blue (the Creature is my fave old time monster), and Ghoulia Yelps. Now if I can just get my paws on a black&white Frankie Stein, I'll have all four elements represented (Earth, Water, Air, and then Fire).

I also collect anything Wonder Woman. Huge WW fan here. When I acquire the latest figure or statuette or doll or PEZ dispenser, I get two of them. One to keep in the original package, the other to rip into and play. Of course this all depends on how much funds I have to play with. :)

I sincerely hope you get the limited Monster High doll you've been wanting and waiting for.
I will be fine. :) I have my San Diego membership, and I know how the crowd moves.

I approve of your monster team! Have you seen Spectra and Abbey yet? Mist and snow join the elements!

mutantenemy

6 years ago

drcpunk

June 16 2011, 06:20:01 UTC 6 years ago Edited:  June 16 2011, 06:20:27 UTC

So... I don't mind someone buying X because maybe X will be worth something some day.

I've occasionally done the "buy one for me and one for a friend or two", but that's different, as I'm not trying to make a profit. And, we're talking stuff that's either not in short supply ("Pamela should get into the Toby books, so I'll pick up an extra") or not in huge demand ("Wow, only six bucks for this thing I know is good? It's still here? Okay, I'll find someone who wants it.")

What I've found really annoying: There are, or were (it's been a while since I checked), some really good semi-annual library book sales in NYC. One weekend long event starts with prices reasonable and drops them as the weekend progresses. And we're talking a huge room full of books.

We're also talking a lot of people wanting to buy these books, so the staff only lets a limited number of people in at a time (fire safety regs). So far, so normal.

People line up for hours before the sale begins. Specifically, used book dealers do this, go in, grab the stuff they think is most likely to be in demand -- grab bags and bags of it -- and sell it at a large mark up.

I get that this is different than "I'm going to buy up rare dolls so no one else can get them and then mark up the prices" and way different than selling future dolls-to-be-acquired. I get that it is legit for used book dealers to attend book sales. This, after all, is their business, acquiring and selling books. Heck, they may be able to make some people very happy by placing some of these books in their hands, people who'd never think of going to the library sale. But, it still annoys me.
I don't mind someone buying X because maybe X will be worth something some day. I mind people buying X because they know that only Y number will be available, thus creating an artificial price jump when they whip around and go "psst, hey kid, that ONE DOLL you wanted this season..."

That sort of thing at book sales bugs me, too. When I was a kid, situations like that were pretty much how I got most of my library, and having the booksellers clean them out would have crushed me.

drcpunk

6 years ago

What makes me sad about scalping is not that people who have a lot of money pay it to get whatever the shiny thing in limited supply is, it's that most of the money goes to a parasitic middleman instead of to the artist who made the shiny things in the first place. To this end, I'd like to see limited-supply things auctioned by the original maker, rather than sold at a fixed price that means that whoever is lucky enough to be in the right place to get one gets to buy it for far less than the market price. This makes a lot of sense for concert tickets, but for promotional items at a convention, part of the point of the convention is to be there to buy the item, and it would diminish the item and the convention to only sell them in an on line auction.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm not a toy collector, but I do like Lolita fashion, and I see the same damn thing every day.

People with a lot of money buy up limited edition or trendy prints and hoard them so they can sell them later, or they decide to sell a popular dress for more than twice what it was originally worth even though it's been worn (or maybe it hasn't been worn but it's been hanging in the closet for two years acquiring pet fur)...and they're the ones who are always all over new releases immediately, so no one else even gets a chance. It's especially irritating because you KNOW not much, if any, of the money is going back to the designer you love so much in the first place. Things like that are so frustrating...especially when they tell you the mark-up is so they at least get back what they paid! If people are that worried about money, they shouldn't be snatching up 10 copies of the same thing and hoping someone is desperate enough to buy it back from them.
Ugh.

Yes.