Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire
  • Mood: chipper
  • Music: Vixy and Tony, "Anna."

DEADLINE open thread. Have a party.

To celebrate the release of Deadline [Amazon]|[Mysterious Galaxy], here. Have an open thread to discuss the book.

THERE WILL BE SPOILERS.

Seriously. If anyone comments here at all, THERE WILL BE SPOILERS. So please don't read and then yell at me because you encountered spoilers. You were warned.

You can also start a book discussion at my website forums, with less need to be concerned that I will see everything you say! In case you wanted, you know, discussion free of authorial influence. I will probably answer a great many comments. I may not answer all of them.

Have fun!
Tags: deadline, mira grant
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  • 842 comments

leighblack

June 1 2011, 16:31:35 UTC 6 years ago

So...why the incest exactly? I really really loved how close Shaun and Georgia were and how they watched out for each other. And now I just have an icky feeling about the whole thing.

I still enjoyed Deadline and can't wait for the next book, but it really put a damper on how much I loved the book.

seanan_mcguire

June 1 2011, 17:01:09 UTC 6 years ago

That's a complicated question, and part of why I sort of winced every time someone commented on how nice it was that Shaun and Georgia didn't need romantic interests. It's not that they didn't need them; it's that George was a very private person, and that wasn't the sort of thing she would share in a first-person narrative.

The short answer is "because they told me it was there." I actually tried to argue them out of it, and just kept getting contradicted by the fictional people. "It's icky." "We're not related." "It's inappropriate." "This isn't YA." "It's unnecessary." "No, it's not. Here are eight reasons why." "You were raised as brother and sister." "We were raised as props for photo opportunities."

So basically...it was there because it was there. I'm sorry it made you uncomfortable.

greycoupon

June 1 2011, 17:11:27 UTC 6 years ago

I tend to be really dense and miss details, was it stated in Feed they weren't related? I assumed they were. That does make me feel better about reading the rest of the book. Looking forward to reading 600 pages after work tonight.

seanan_mcguire

June 1 2011, 17:13:56 UTC 6 years ago

It was, several times. I actually wanted to make Georgia Korean, so people would catch it more immediately (and because she seemed Asian-American to me), but then I would have been killing a central disabled woman of color, and wow did I not want an invitation to THAT party...

d_aulnoy

6 years ago

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leighblack

June 1 2011, 17:12:26 UTC 6 years ago

Thank you for the lovely and honest answer. I'm not a writer myself, but I do understand some about writing process and characters taking their stories into their own hands.

And certainly, you don't need to apologize. You're not in the business of making everyone happy. Just because I was squicked out by it, doesn't mean that other people won't enjoy the relationship or that it shouldn't have been there. But I appreciate it all the same. ;)

And just as an FYI, that one part certainly hasn't stopped me from talking the books up to people. I already have my copy loaned out to one friend and another is reading Feed right now. I just know that there are certainly people that it would definitely be an actual trigger for and will refrain from passing it along to them. (I'm really going to have to make sure to get them back so I can have you sign them at CONvergence! ;))

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kshandra

June 1 2011, 17:39:00 UTC 6 years ago

If I may ask, how early did they tell you? Because I wondered, more than once, during the first book.

(And yeah, I just spoiled the living hell out of myself by reading this thread, but I'll have the book by Friday, and I don't know how this gets revealed, so there's still plenty left to shock me.)

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lnbw

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seanan_mcguire

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A bit late to the party...

snowcoma

6 years ago

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Re: A bit late to the party...

seanan_mcguire

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seanan_mcguire

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jennygriffee

June 1 2011, 19:52:11 UTC 6 years ago

I liked it myself that there weren't romantic interests in the picture, although the eventual reveal (which was not a total surprise; there had been hints) didn't bother me, either; it just fleshed a few things out. On balance, what's still refreshing about it is that that part of their relationship wasn't what drove everything. They were crazy close in every possible way, and understandably so, but their work was the story, and the rest was private business that didn't have to be ours. I am fine with that. It's nice seeing people as real partners and not having it be all about Hot! Raging! Hormones! every time, even if that is part of the picture somewhere or other.

(And sure, I have an incest squick nine miles wide, but when they're not actually related, that's a moot point -- it's emotionally tangled up as all hell, but that just makes it interesting.... ;)

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

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espressosnail

June 2 2011, 02:30:42 UTC 6 years ago

I haven't read Deadline yet but spoilers don't bother me so here I am in this thread. Anyway! I was just going to say when I read Feed I had the feeling that there was something between George and Shaun.

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

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trialia

June 2 2011, 12:16:32 UTC 6 years ago

Honestly, I don't squick much, but incest is the one that's about nine miles wide for me, whether actual siblings or just raised that way, and this... didn't trigger it too badly. And I kept reading. Which, in itself, is weird for me - and I think it says a lot about the quality of your writing.

I never felt they were actually having sex, though; more just part of an absolute, loving codependence. Does that make sense?

amberfox

6 years ago

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gwynnega

June 2 2011, 22:13:24 UTC 6 years ago

It felt very organic to the characters, so I'm not surprised it was the characters insisting! My reaction to the reveal was "Aha!", as opposed to "Ick."

jenrose1

June 3 2011, 19:41:46 UTC 6 years ago

Characters do this to me all the damn time (not with the incest, but with the "Oh hai, we need you to write the story this way now even though it's NOT what you thought we'd do") and I sympathize. Invariably, they're right, and invariably some reader says, "Why did they do such and such?"

My reaction to that scene was just a sigh and "Oh Shaun." And I can't say it came as a surprise, exactly, I'd wondered.

wendyzski

June 4 2011, 02:15:24 UTC 6 years ago

I for one didn't read it as icky - just "OK, probably not the most healthy of choices, but then again no one in this world-view is particularly well-wrapped to begin with"

notalwaysweak

June 5 2011, 02:03:56 UTC 6 years ago

I was reading along all unaware, la la la sex scene, and then he said 'Good night, George', and my train of thought went like this:

Slip of the tongue?
Dude. Dude. The last thing right above that is about sex.
Yeah, but... OMFG.
She went there.
Oh, she totally went there.
That's hella brave.
...Shaun's so fucked now.
Well, yes...
SHUT UP, BRAIN.

Mind you, my head being what it is, this was my fictional characters commenting on your fictional characters, so it was more than just me thinking this on my own, it was like a conversation. And I totally get what you mean by 'they told me it was there'. Sometimes we gotta just do what the voices tell us.

I do have commentary on the rest of the book as well. It goes sort of like this: OMFG OMFG OMFG ahahaha poor Mahir OMFG OMFG she would have gotten WHAT NOW? OMFG OMFG oh Kelly (but she didn't die on screen!) OMFG OMFG OMFG INSECTS OMFG.

I finished the book in the doctor's waiting room (apparently I 'just' have a virus; I did not wave the book in his face and yell 'SO WAS KELLIS-AMBERLEE') and managed to not get any weird looks from people, despite the part where I started humming 'The Black Death' because now I have ideas for a K-A themed rewrite.

azurelunatic

6 years ago

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6 years ago

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crainefish

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seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

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biomekanic

June 6 2011, 17:34:54 UTC 6 years ago

Yeah, sometimes characters stand up and go "We're going over here, you can come along if you want, but no f'in way are you getting us to go in some other direction."

mrs_norris_mous

June 6 2011, 23:58:48 UTC 6 years ago

So this feels a bit too much like saying you knew something after you are told however. When reading the first book I did note that they where not genetically related.

I had the feeling that they were partners but there was nothing I could really put a finger on unless it was the scene when they checked into a hotel and got one room and a point was made of the receptionist's disapproval, and the fact that George didn't care what they thought.

Anyway a good book, not as tear inducing as Feed but a good story.

I am slow as it occurred to me when I was driving about last week what a news Blackout was.....

cryptaknight

June 9 2011, 13:02:09 UTC 6 years ago

Honestly, the clues were there; I had my suspicions. I appreciate that it wasn't a focus because so much genre fiction these days does focus on the romance and the love triangles. It wasn't the most important part of the story, and it didn't really matter so much in Feed; it mattered more in Deadline because of Shaun's terrible grief, and because of poor Becks and her interest in him. I thought you handled it well, and I'm glad you kept the focus on the (amazing) plot.

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

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drcpunk

June 17 2011, 21:22:40 UTC 6 years ago

Okay, I missed the "not related" until it was pointed out that it says outright the age difference is way too small for that to be possible.

I totally missed that there was actual incest, even after reading Deadline (I'm slow that way), but it doesn't squick me.

To the degree anything about all of that annoys me, it's that Shaun has to feel like shit to be forgiven for being a person so damaged that he doesn't realize someone's interested in him and when, after a long day of new hell (until the next new hell) breaking loose, he lets someone who knows he's way damaged seduce him, and who lies (possibly to herself as well) about only wanting comfort sex, as he's falling asleep calling out George's name.

If he has to take responsibility for his actions under those circumstances, so does she. Reverse the genders and have a guy walking in on a woman coming our of the shower to make a play for her, and my squick button goes off.

The idea that this is the shittiest thing Shaun's done to date has me going, "Er, wait. So, it's shittier to call out the wrong woman's name when you're damaged goods giving way to a seduction after that kind of day than it is to slam your male colleagues against the wall, repeatedly, with both sides knowing that it won't be the last time? Really?"

Don't get me wrong -- apologizing is good, understanding he fucked up is good, even not arguing with everyone else is good. If there were no other reason it's good, there would be the need to keep the team functional. I get all that. But saying Becks is the helpless, utterly wronged party just says things about both genders I'm not prepared to accept. I know saying, "Hey, I'm interested in you, and I think you're just playing hard to get. Am I right?" is really hard, but you know? I'd have no sympathy for a guy failing to ask a woman that, and I think Becks is as capable as any guy. Is it understandable for her to misread, and then to leave without talking to Shaun the morning after (aka the reason he can't apologize as soon as he's conscious)? Sure. Absolutely. But, he gets to be human, too.

So, er, yeah, hot button there. An odd one, I guess, but it's definitely there.

(And there's the hot button of, "Dudes? You're telling Shaun he should go back in the field as an Irwin when one of that absolutely sanest things he's doing is realizing that this would be suicidal. What is the matter with you?")

But the incest itself? It actually makes more sense than what I thought was going on. After Feed, I'd assumed George had never had sex, and that Shaun might not have either. After Deadline, I'd assumed I was right about George, but Shaun clearly had at least enough experience that Becks wasn't his first. This makes a lot more sense.

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

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drcpunk

6 years ago

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greycoupon

June 1 2011, 17:07:52 UTC 6 years ago

I'm only 175 pages in but I really want to know... Georgia and Shaun had a sexual relationship? Ongoing?

I'm sure Seanan wrote it well but I just want to prepare myself as from the comments here, I'm a bit disturbed but always am with this kind of thing.

seanan_mcguire

June 1 2011, 17:09:00 UTC 6 years ago

Remember, they aren't actually related, and had a sibling relationship only in the absolutely most technical terms. The Masons didn't raise them. They recorded them.

greycoupon

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amberfox

June 2 2011, 05:57:29 UTC 6 years ago

I managed to miss that implication; I didn't read that as incest at all, just as him being used to sleeping next to George, which we had previously been told they did when traveling. Also if they slept in connecting rooms with the door open, saying Goodnight would be common enough. I shared a room with my sister for 1.5 years and still share a house, and we grab each other first to share anything we want to squee about or need an opinion on, but we've never had sex. Some people are just really close. Codependency would be a survival skill after the Rising.

Of course, if Seanan says they're fucking like bunnies, well, she'd know, right? =)

ladyphoenixia

June 5 2011, 01:00:19 UTC 6 years ago

I too managed to read Deadline and not actually realise that implication until I read it in this thread, just thought he was sleepy enough that the female who was saying goodnight to him in his room was George. Pretty oblivious hey?

keristor

6 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

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drcpunk

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sheistheweather

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admnaismith

June 11 2011, 20:12:43 UTC 6 years ago


You're not alone in that....I mean, George has been having conversations with Shaun in his head for over a year now, they probably talk a lot just as he's drifting off to sleep.

As opposed to Shaun drifting off to sleep next to someone else, which for all I can tell was happening for the very first time in his life.

Awful faux pas, but it didn't indicate sex-with-George to me at all.

Sometimes I think I may be one of the few people left who actually thinks of a deep kind of intimacy-based platonic love for others that isn't based on sex. I get startled when people talk about how famous same-sex friends in fiction (Holmes and Watson, Robin Hood and Little John, Spencer and Hawk) were probably friggling like bunnies. That stuff never occurs to me. Not with opposite sex friends either unless sexual tension is written into the story.

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

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seanan_mcguire

June 14 2011, 19:20:54 UTC 6 years ago

Sadly, yes.

Because they insist on TELLING me.

windtear

June 3 2011, 10:39:12 UTC 6 years ago

All through Feed, I kept thinking, of course neither of them have romantic partners or want them, they've already got their lifemate. But I never thought they were actually having sex. I'm still a bit unsure if they did or not (part of me is thinking that it would be extremely ironic for Shaun to only realise that his feelings include the sexual after George's death), so you can join me here in the corner if you like.

jenfullmoon

June 10 2011, 06:44:52 UTC 6 years ago

I did wonder about it (sex or no, they do have their lifemate), but then I thought about all of the kids who grew up in kibbutzes having zero sexual interest in each other because they grew up together and thought, "Nah.... this is more of the Not Love Interest trope."

Never mind.