Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
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Because You Asked: A Cat May Look At A King.

I recently volunteered to make five detailed blog posts on things people wanted to know about the Toby universe, and provided a dedicated thread for them to make their suggestions. While these posts will not be specifically spoiler-y for published books, they will provide background material on the universe, and can be viewed as part of my functional canon. This is the fourth such post.

sumeria asks, "How relevant really is the existence of "royal" members of the Cait Sidhe, if they determine the ruler by combat? I had assumed there was no real royal family until Tybalt made such a big deal of Raj being the only younger royal there was and Toby seemed to assume that Raj would one day replace Tybalt. Or is it just that only royals can fight for the right to rule? (also, the assumption that Tybalt will be replaced seems odd to me, just in that if he's immortal, he should theoretically grow stronger, not weaken with age)"

Come one, come all, to the Jellicle Ball! It's time to talk Cait Sidhe.

Now, the first thing we have to address is "Why do the Cait Sidhe get their own government?" The short form is that they went to Oberon and petitioned him for it, and he was so impressed by the fact that they had the audacity to do so that he gave them what they wanted. Ask and ye shall receive, in other words. Part of what made it possible for them to get away with it is their relationship with the Shadow Roads. There are other races in Faerie, like the Candela, who can access something similar, but only the Cait Sidhe can use the Shadow Roads for distance travel, or to connect places that are geographically unconnected. So when they asked for their own government, they were able to promise that their Courts would only use space that no one else had a claim to. At the time, the Cait Sidhe had a good relationship with all three of their Firstborn, and were able to get them to back the claim. So the Court of Cats was born.

The Court of Cats is not subject to the whims of the local monarchy, although it is subject to Oberon's Laws...with one major exception. Cait Sidhe are permitted to kill each other over succession, providing it happens openly, and is not a matter of assassination. They have a violent society, and their laws reflect that.

Cait Sidhe don't handle succession the way the regular Courts do, in part because they accept all their changelings as full members of their society. It's rare to find a Cait Sidhe Court that doesn't include multiple human- and cat-form changelings, none of whom are looked down upon for the circumstances of their birth. This means that bloodlines get complicated, as there are Cait Sidhe who are the children of fae who were the children of a changeling and a pureblood, or quarter-blood children who were born in the Court and have never entered the mortal world. Many Cait Sidhe Kings and Queens have bevvies of changeling children, using their existence to prove that they can provide for their people. So heredity is not necessarily a factor. So what does "royal" mean?

"Royal," among the Cait Sidhe, is a measure of strength of magic. A royal Cait Sidhe must be able to travel the Shadow Roads without hindrance; carry others with them; transform from cat to human and back again, without any unwanted traits bleeding over from one shape to another; cast basic illusions; open doors between the deepest Court of Cats and the Summerlands; create Courts by hewing small spaces out of the Shadows and keeping them open, essentially as temporary shallowings, until they are no longer needed; command loyalty; and die and come back. This is not a comment set of skills. Most Cait Sidhe can access the Shadow Roads, cast illusions, and change forms...but not all of them. Some Cait Sidhe are always bipedal, or always cats. Some Cait Sidhe have tails in their human forms, or no tails in their cat forms. And so it goes.

There are also specific talents related to Kings of Cats and Queens of Cats, but that's something for another day.

Royal Cait Sidhe are relatively rare, which is probably a good thing, since it means that succession fights are also relatively rare. Most areas will have a King and a Queen, each with their own Court; Kings and Queens of Cats do not tend to get along very well, and will very rarely operate their Courts in the same city. In the San Francisco Bay Area, for example, Tybalt maintains the Court of Dreaming Cats in San Francisco, while the nearest Queen is centered in Berkeley. They can, and do, enter one another's territory, but for the most part, they tend to stay in "their" cities.

Courts must have royals to stay stable. Their Kings and Queens are their protectors, and the lines which keep the Cait Sidhe from becoming totally lawless, and thus a danger to the rest of Faerie. Part of the agreement with Oberon was that the royal Cait Sidhe would do this thing, no matter how much they didn't want to.

Kings and Queens must take their thrones through combat. This is true. Most of the time, however, this combat is ritual at best; it's fairly rare for a sitting King or Queen who hasn't become a total despot to be forcibly deposed. Cats don't necessarily like responsibility, after all, and being King or Queen for all time is going to get boring. Kings and Queens of Cats tend to adopt potential heirs, train them, and then, if they judge the heirs to be suitable, essentially cede the throne. The fight still happens, and it's a pretty bloody one—the throne can't go to an unsuitable ruler—but it's not as serious as it would be if they didn't already intend to step down.

Toby assumes Raj will eventually take Tybalt's place because she assumes Tybalt will either a) get himself killed somehow, or b) get bored. He's been King of Dreaming Cats since the late 1800s, which isn't that long for a fae reign, but is a very long time for a cat. Also, the fact that he allows Raj to stay means that he's probably considering giving up his throne sometime in the next ten to seventy years.

Once Tybalt is no longer a King of a specific Court, he'll still be a King of Cats, and may eventually have another Court of his own. That won't happen until he's ready for it, however; witness Barbara from ALH Computing, who was a Queen without a dedicated Court, and seemed happy that way.

And that is Cait Sidhe succession. Any questions?

ETA: This is the "how do they govern" post, not the "detailed biology" post. No further questions about Cait Sidhe biology will be answered. Thank you for understanding.
Tags: a few facts, cats, continuity checking, toby daye
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  • 42 comments
Does this mean that theoretically, a changeling of uncommon ability (for values of "uncommon" approaching "snowball's chance in Hell") could be a Monarch of Cats?
Yup! If you can do all the things a King or Queen needs to do, and you can defeat the current monarch, you get the throne. Regardless of how human your ancestors may have been.
Thank you so much! I have no words for how much I love these books, and I'm the sort who can never get enough background information.

That also explains a question I forgot I had, ie, why Tybalt says his (living) brother's son is the only Royal cat other than him in the court. When I assumed it was a family thing, that confused me, but with this explanation, I suppose there's no particular necessity for it to be a bloodline-related thing. (Though I imagine there's a higher chance of having all the required skills/powers in some families than others?)

And if I can get one follow up, would this imply that Royals without courts are generally not encouraged to reside in the courts of royals *with* courts, if the ruler has no interest in stepping down near-term?
1) His brother is actually not related to him; he adopted him in order to get access to Raj. Raj's parents basically "auditioned" Courts that might be looking for a King in twenty years, and chose San Francisco. Tybalt paid a lot for this privilege, including getting a new "brother." Royalty is not actually all that bloodline-dependent.

2) Correct. Royals without Courts aren't encouraged to stay long-term, unless they were born there, and don't make too much trouble.

sumeria

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

Drat. My only question/comment is silly -- is a "Manx" cat-form "legitimate," or do the Cait Sidhe consider that a flawed transformation? (What about bob-tails? Or if you're a cat-changeling who was born sans-tail?)

...I wonder how many "totally normal" cats have a touch of Cait Sidhe in their far-back ancestry? (Maybe my little "peculiar" did have reason to think that he was going to grow up to be a human someday! *wry sad smile*)

(* I already had a "familiar," so my little hand-raised kitling was my peculiar. I miss him still.)
It can be normal, but if both your parents have tails and you don't, it's a flaw.

archangelbeth

6 years ago

So far, we've only seen Tybalt's Court. Are all Courts of Cats urban* or are there rural Courts?

* That is, are their ties to the mortal world are in urban places?
There are rural Courts.
Wait, didn't Toby know Julie from Darien (...I think I have that name wrong, argh), or am I misremembering? (I'd check, but my books are currently 5000 miles away in England so my partner can read them.) Assuming I'm not misremembering, why wasn't she in the Court?

Also, do Cait Sidhe - 'normal' ones that can shapeshift or ones with only cat form - ever mate with ordinary cats? If yes, how common is it? How likely is the one sleeping in my lap - whose mom got out and mated with a tom nobody ever saw - has a bit of Cait Sidhe?
In re: Julie, I think I remember Toby saying that the two of them were friends before *she* ran off, and that Julie followed her. iirc, Toby said that was why (she thought) Tybalt disliked her so much; because cat changelings didn't run away from the court, generally.

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

Cait Sidhe don't handle succession the way the regular Courts do, in part because they accept all their changelings as full members of their society. And from above" Yup! If you can do all the things a King or Queen needs to do, and you can defeat the current monarch, you get the throne. Regardless of how human your ancestors may have been.

From AAN, Raj's dad: "If he can't defeat her, he can't hold the throne while she lives...Her blood is mixed. She can't be a Queen for this Court or any other. But she can still stop him from being King."

The comment by Raj's dad implied to me that a changeling couldn't be a King or Queen of Cats. So is the "mixed blood" he refers to lack of the magic skills necessary to rule, rather than mixed human/fae/cat blood?

Also, if Tybalt was looking for a Prince, and Raj's parents were auditioning courts, then it was the parent's decision that Raj someday try to inherit, rather than Raj's idea. Gives new meaning to "stage parent." Can Raj get out of it anyway other than being defeated since he is now designated as Prince?

There would also be an implication that Cat magic skills manifest early. Otherwise, how would Rag's parents know he was Prince material? Are young Cait Sidhe somehow screened for the necessary skills? If Raj is old enough to fight Julie to hold his position, could he simply have said to Toby, "I'm going home now" and led the young Cait Sidhe back to Tybalt's court on the Shadow Roads? (I know Toby accepted the responsibility to bring them home, but Raj seems to not be able to get home without her help once he's out of Blind Michael's lands).

Finally, I'm assuming it is a prerogative of the King to stop any fights, even though the other cats wouldn't do so? That might be one way that Kings protect their Princes until they grow old enough and strong enough to challenge for rule.







Raj's dad is an asshole. Beyond that, changelings are less likely to have the strength to be royal. If she'd had the power to be a Queen, he would never have dared to refer to her in those terms.

Whether Raj has any shot at getting out of it is yet to be seen. Raj is too young to have full access to the Shadow Roads, and cannot yet move large numbers of people, even though he could move himself. Also, Helen would have died. He couldn't carry her, and she was too wounded to run.

Kings and Queens can always stop fights.

idancewithlife

6 years ago

I'm going to have to do a massive re-read in the next 10-15 days. All this information is making me ask questions/question my memory or simply want to put it all back in context.

For this I adore you and may whisper a little curse at you since there is no where near enough time in the day to read the new stuff and re-read the old stuff and take care of the small people, the kitty-boys (Magnus and SkippyJon Jones or, in Charlie's world, Sippy and Mag-us) and that man I'm married to. Sigh. Oh, and my job. Whatever.
Yay!
How come it was Raj parents that held auditions? I would have thought that it would be an honour to have your son be Prince and Tybalt would have the pick of the litter.

If Tybalt doesn’t have any real brothers then why does Julie call him uncle? How many nieces and nephews does Tybalt have?

If succession fights are rare then what is so violent about the Cat courts?
My opinion, for what it's worth:

Raj's parents had a son who could be King of Cats anywhere. That's a valuable commodity in Toby's world. There's no reason to have Raj be King of the Cats to some unimportant, middle-of-nowhere court if they get an equally good or better offer from Tybalt. This is trying to get their son the best possible future (an important thing, if the Q&A on fostering is any indicator) as well as looking at the best possibility for themselves.

Raj probably is the pick of the litter; he has the potential to be a King of Cats.

trixiaw

6 years ago

shiyiya

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

dornbeast

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

Ooh, this is so interesting! Since Cait Sidhe can mate with ordinary cats, if this occurred in successive generations (Cait Sidhe/housecat mix x full Cait Sidhe), would it reach a point where the offspring gained sentience? How many generations would it require?

I guess what I'm asking is, I can see how Cait Sidhe/human changelings would work, but if you're 3/4 Cait Sidhe and 1/4 ordinary cat, for example, how does that manifest itself? Are you then a Cait Sidhe who's very cat-like, or are you still basically a cat? Or is it that the offspring of a Cait Sidhe and a cat is a sentient Cait Sidhe, but if those offspring continue to breed with cats, eventually there will be a generation of housecats.

/curious
Yes, eventually, there will be a generation of housecats. There are already Cait Sidhe, like Raj's mother, who can't take human form.

sageautumn

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

If Julie challenged Tybalt and won, then, by the laws, is he still king of that court, if she can't do all the things a royal Cait Sidhe is supposed to be able to do? If he isn't, again, by the laws -- I don't want spoilers -- is she? Is Raj?
If Julie challenged Tybalt and won, she'd be cheating, and he'd either be dead at the end of the fight, or she'd be dead shortly afterward. One way, he's not King, because he's dead, and the Court now needs a new King, stat. The other way, he didn't really lose.

Julie isn't a Queen of Cats; she lacks the potential.
What is the current relationship between the Cait Sidhe and their Firtsborn?
Unknown.
Okay, so, odd breeding question, here. IIRC, you've established that three-quarter fae changelings are or can be considered fully fae. And that Cait Sidhe can get children on humans and cats. Has the situation arisen where a 3/4 CS/cat fae and a 3/4 CS/human couple have spawned? Does that work? Is that special?

And are there limits to how much of a cat a cat has to be in order to 'qualify' as acceptable stock to the Cait Sidhe? Are hybrids in the woodpile at all? I'm not developing an RPG based on Toby's world and building a liger Cait Sidhe changeling, promise!
Cait Sidhe are specifically domestic cats and things that can breed with domestic cats. As for your first question...math is hard. Let's have strawberry ice cream.

eksleebriss

6 years ago

If the royal family isn't necessarily bloodline dependent, would it really be a problem for Raj to be dating Helen? Or would some of the purebloods object purely out of sheer snobbery?

seanan_mcguire

February 17 2011, 06:02:59 UTC 6 years ago Edited:  February 17 2011, 06:03:08 UTC

Sheer snobbery + she's really not going to even POTENTIALLY supply heirs, and could be a major distraction.