tiredOn Sunday at Arisia, I was on a panel called "Fanfic As Writer's Workshop," for discussion of how the skills and techniques learned from writing fanfiction can be applied to writing original fiction. (Yes, Virginia, you can learn how to write by writing fanfic. But that is another post for another day.) I was, at the time, incredibly sick, due to exposure to mango (which I am highly allergic to), but I was determined to soldier through. It's probably a good thing that I was as sick as I was, since it prevented my becoming annoyed enough to shout. See? Vomiting has value!
The panel consisted entirely of women (myself, three other writers, and Diana). The room, while small, was quite well-filled, with a nice mix of people who wanted to discuss learning about writing through, well, actually writing. And, in the front row, was That Guy. He was fairly large; fairly unkempt; had not brushed his hair; appeared to be wearing basic black for its stain-concealing properties, rather than out of any goth sympathies; and was, when first sighted, vigorously picking at his teeth.
Please don't be That Guy, part one: If you're sitting in the front row of a panel, in full view of the panelists, please don't pick your teeth. If you must pick your teeth, please use a toothpick, or something, rather than using your fingers. We'd really rather not watch.
The panel began with enthusiasm, as each panelist explained their views on our topic, and we began taking questions from the attendees. That Guy stopped picking his teeth, which was a mercy, and began, instead, picking his ear. With the same finger.
Please don't be That Guy, part two: Sometimes we have itches. I get that. I, too, am an itchy person. But if you're sitting in the front row of a panel, and have already been seen to be picking your teeth, please do not stick the same finger in your ear. It makes the panelists very uncomfortable.
More questions from the audience. This is the point at which That Guy began truly interacting. "How do I get more readers for my fanfic?" he asked. "I wrote an alternate universe [SHOW] [SEASON], where instead of [MAN] killing [WOMAN], he rapes her."
Cue horrified silence. The fanfic community is largely female, for better or for worse, and that sort of statement is rarely going to go over well in mixed company. Diana, who was by that point far more diplomatic than I, tried pointing this out, along with the note that maybe, if he wanted people to trust him writing about rape, he needed to get them to trust him writing about other things, first. He countered with the fact that he had received good feedback from women. We moved on as quickly as possible.
Later in the panel, the topic of porn came up. Porn is, after all, the stereotypical reason people write fanfic, and that's not entirely a bad thing. So all of these women are now saying the word "porn," with varying degrees of enthusiasm.
Please don't be That Guy, part three: If you think there is ANY CHANCE that you might become visibly aroused by live women saying the word "porn," please DO NOT sit in the front row at a panel on fanfiction. They're going to say it, and what's going to happen is going to happen, and then I'm going to have to fight the urge to eject you from the room.
That Guy attempted to drag the panel back to a recounting of the plot of his fanfic several times, to the point where I actually asked him "How is this relevant?" (If you've ever been on a panel with me, or attended a panel with me, you'll know that I'm not opposed to topic drift, so long as it remains interesting and vaguely tangential. If I'm the one shutting you down, it's because you're so far off topic that you're no longer even in the topic's time zone.)
So please. This is a plea for everyone, male and female, who attends conventions and goes to panels: Please don't be That Guy. Don't sit to take up three chairs, sticking fingers in your facial orifices, and try to engage women in discussions on how rape in literature is awesome and not inappropriate in the least. Don't look offended when the panelists don't want to hand the panel to you, so that you can tell us about your magnum opus and why we all need to read it. And please, please, don't be creepy. For the rest of the weekend, if I saw That Guy, I moved to another elevator.
Let's play nicely with the other fans, and only creep them out with their permission, okay? I've done my best to be general here, but this one specific incident really drove home why this is something that needs to be said. No one was touched, cornered, or specifically harassed, but I had three people who attended that panel tell me how uncomfortable That Guy made them. Beyond that, I know how uncomfortable he made me.
I'm just saying.
ETA: Because this has come up twice, and is hence distracting: "please don't take up three chairs" does NOT mean "please don't be fat at a panel." You may be as fat as you do or do not wish to be, and as long as you're happy and healthy, I'm happy for you. But as I say on a regular basis, your backpack does not deserve a chair of its own. Neither does your leg, unless you are injured and require elevation. Neither does your arm. And if you're taking a chair each for your leg, torso, and arm, you have perhaps crossed a line.
January 21 2011, 17:52:37 UTC 6 years ago
This goes in general. We want to know, even if the incident does not seem actionable by itself, because we may have other information.
January 21 2011, 18:52:39 UTC 6 years ago
Here comes the " but" though...
I wasn't there so cannot comment on what lines his behavior did or did not cross, but I know I am uncomfortable at lynchings. I really am. This guy may have been a jerk, inappropriate, really disgusting and more but that doesn't make anything he did actionable and getting him identified so that others can possibly label him as say a "offender" is huge and can have an impact way beyond what might be intended.
Look, I don't want to hang around obnoxious people anymore than anyone else does, but I also have the compassion to see that they might be damaged in ways I am not aware of. They may be mentally ill, have social anxiety disorders or disorders that make social interaction a puzzle they cant quite figure out. It's not our job to to fix that, but aside from keeping a firm hold on the discussion in panels so that no one audience member dominates and maybe, if one is comfortable, directly confronting any ken who does repeatedly try to dominate I am leery of us now acting as a mob to bring his name as a person who has harassed others simply by being unclean and obnoxious.
Now, if you are being really polite and not telling me that he was openly making lewd gestures, verbal remarks etc and this truly was a case if harassment than I apologize for butting in, because as I said I wasn't at that panel.
Full disclosure, I am nearly 50 and have spent a great deal of my life working with populations that include people like this, who while repugnant in hygiene and other social areas are not criminals, but merely have never received or are not capable of learning basic social skills.
Sorry this is so long and probably incoherent.
January 21 2011, 19:02:47 UTC 6 years ago
January 21 2011, 19:05:11 UTC 6 years ago Edited: January 21 2011, 19:05:32 UTC
(edited to change userpic)
January 21 2011, 19:21:16 UTC 6 years ago
I am old enough to remember stories of the McCarthy era and how chilling this was. I don't want us to foster an environment where we list people we dint like because they are icky and then start trying to find more evidence to exclude them or charge them with crimes. Again, if a crime was committed then yes, that info should be reported.
Also, and more importantly, what is the problem here? He was a shmuck? He was dirty and socially repugnant? He wanted to and may have gotten off ( but this is subjective and yes, if those there so actual acts on his part that is a different story) on sharing his rape fantasies as fanfic? Many women truly enjoy and get off disucssing their m/m fanfic and others ( not me!) might be disgusted by that but they have a right to discuss it. The panel and audience may have been primarily female but it was not a women only space and so not fair to expect him to only discuss fanfic that women would like. However, really, none of this is relevant, it's clear he was a jerk and I completely agree with Seanan that no kne should be that guy or gal. I attended numerous panels where kne or two jndoividuaks completely controlled the panel with personal stories, issues etc and while not all of them were cringe-worthy it was still annoying. I attended one panel where a panelist announced she couldn't stay more than half an hour and so would do all the talking until then, and I left becaus that's basically what she did. Aggravating? Yes. actionable? No.
January 21 2011, 19:23:05 UTC 6 years ago
January 21 2011, 19:44:33 UTC 6 years ago
January 21 2011, 19:15:48 UTC 6 years ago
1) Sharing details with the Arisia feedback team - whose job it is to hear this sort of feedback for issues that may be more major (actual specific harassment) or less major (some of the feedback inevitably include complaints about things like why certain program items even exist) - is hardly a public name-outing and lynching.
2) Some of what you wrote above sounds very similar to the same arguments used to derail womens' experiences, by telling us that we are over-reacting, over-reacting, "Oh that's just Bob, it's just his way", "oh, well geeks often don't have social skills", and similar stuff. Until there's a problem, and then it becomes "Why didn't you say anything before it became a problem???". I think palmwiz is being very responsible in askinf for feedback, and the way he has asked for feedback.
January 21 2011, 19:37:19 UTC 6 years ago
I get to have an opinion. My opinion is simple, the guy was clearly a dork and it sounds like the panelisst did a decent job handling it and that with this entry Seanan has made a valid plea for no one to be "that guy". I simply don't agree with putting him on a list, but it's not my decision just my opinion and if folks want to then knock yourselves out.
The anger I am feeling now is because you, in disagreeing with me, are making hugs assumptions about my own experiences, knowlege and beliefs. I was raped at the age of 9. I was abused and worse by a partner again in my teens and I have sent my life helping women and children escape a cycle of violence and shame. I have never belittled the voices or realities of any man or woman and repeatedly in what I wrote above said that certainly if individuals felt those lines had been forward than report it. I don't get to decide where those lines or whether they have been crossed. I merely suggested we try and be a little compassionate as well because we could be dealing with an individual with serious mental health issues or even simply with someone who is just a jerk but not more than that. Again, I wasn't there so not my place to make the distinction. It makes me sad that another women would tell me that I am a collaborator because I have an opinion she disagrees with. I just wanted to caution folks to differentiate between creepy and actionable and to maybe temper judgement with kindness. Silly me.
Oh and not that it matters, but yes I am liberal in my politics, I am not Christian, I am pro human rights and I like small furry animals, unicorns and some zombies. I am fat, my family is multi-racial and um..can't think of any other shoeboxes I might get put in..but yeah, I don't eat kittens either.
January 21 2011, 21:39:24 UTC 6 years ago
On the other hand, some of that arguably comes under 'against the rules of the convention' which could mean that he be asked not to come to future ones or at least that someone from the concom needs to have a discussion with him about some of his inappropriate behavior.
I also have to say that I found your response, complete with invocation of McCarthyism and witch hunts and persecution to be rather extreme given what was actually asked. And somewhat stiffling as you were effectively telling people who were made very uncomfortable 'well, you shouldn't complain because you don't know what else is going on with him'. Because, as much as you may not have meant to do that, that is, actually, what you effectively did.
January 21 2011, 22:18:23 UTC 6 years ago
I do not see
I do see
I think that she is trying to explain her discomfort with your actual opinion on the A Topic by drawing parallels to a more clearly delineated but totally other scenario from history.
I think you are reacting to her disagreement by misreading what she actually wrote. Your hindbrain is throwing in an idea that
Yes, I unfortunately am now saying that you overreacted. I hate to see a sensible, insightful woman essentially say "my origin makes it unreasonable for anyone to say I am wrong".
***
For my own part, when I'm at a convention, I automatically presume that I'm there to learn and to help others learn; and anyone who starts a social interaction with me is there for the same reason, and therefore can reasonably be approached with, "Are you interested in some practice at recognizing and navigating social boundaries? I've learned how to tell when Topic Q will freak out a particular subgroup, and some of why, and how to not induce freaking, and would be happy to compare notes with you for a while."
But I've met some people of whatever gender who prefer that the world bend to accomodate them rather than the other way 'round, and those are people I would discreetly report to