Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

  • Mood:
  • Music:

Please don't be That Guy.

I thought fairly hard about whether or not to make this post, as I generally try not to say negative things that can't be veiled behind a lovely shimmering curtain of "no details here." In the end, I decided that the details I had were vague enough to be borderline-generic, with a few careful omissions. And this is an important "please don't be this guy."

On Sunday at Arisia, I was on a panel called "Fanfic As Writer's Workshop," for discussion of how the skills and techniques learned from writing fanfiction can be applied to writing original fiction. (Yes, Virginia, you can learn how to write by writing fanfic. But that is another post for another day.) I was, at the time, incredibly sick, due to exposure to mango (which I am highly allergic to), but I was determined to soldier through. It's probably a good thing that I was as sick as I was, since it prevented my becoming annoyed enough to shout. See? Vomiting has value!

The panel consisted entirely of women (myself, three other writers, and Diana). The room, while small, was quite well-filled, with a nice mix of people who wanted to discuss learning about writing through, well, actually writing. And, in the front row, was That Guy. He was fairly large; fairly unkempt; had not brushed his hair; appeared to be wearing basic black for its stain-concealing properties, rather than out of any goth sympathies; and was, when first sighted, vigorously picking at his teeth.

Please don't be That Guy, part one: If you're sitting in the front row of a panel, in full view of the panelists, please don't pick your teeth. If you must pick your teeth, please use a toothpick, or something, rather than using your fingers. We'd really rather not watch.

The panel began with enthusiasm, as each panelist explained their views on our topic, and we began taking questions from the attendees. That Guy stopped picking his teeth, which was a mercy, and began, instead, picking his ear. With the same finger.

Please don't be That Guy, part two: Sometimes we have itches. I get that. I, too, am an itchy person. But if you're sitting in the front row of a panel, and have already been seen to be picking your teeth, please do not stick the same finger in your ear. It makes the panelists very uncomfortable.

More questions from the audience. This is the point at which That Guy began truly interacting. "How do I get more readers for my fanfic?" he asked. "I wrote an alternate universe [SHOW] [SEASON], where instead of [MAN] killing [WOMAN], he rapes her."

Cue horrified silence. The fanfic community is largely female, for better or for worse, and that sort of statement is rarely going to go over well in mixed company. Diana, who was by that point far more diplomatic than I, tried pointing this out, along with the note that maybe, if he wanted people to trust him writing about rape, he needed to get them to trust him writing about other things, first. He countered with the fact that he had received good feedback from women. We moved on as quickly as possible.

Later in the panel, the topic of porn came up. Porn is, after all, the stereotypical reason people write fanfic, and that's not entirely a bad thing. So all of these women are now saying the word "porn," with varying degrees of enthusiasm.

Please don't be That Guy, part three: If you think there is ANY CHANCE that you might become visibly aroused by live women saying the word "porn," please DO NOT sit in the front row at a panel on fanfiction. They're going to say it, and what's going to happen is going to happen, and then I'm going to have to fight the urge to eject you from the room.

That Guy attempted to drag the panel back to a recounting of the plot of his fanfic several times, to the point where I actually asked him "How is this relevant?" (If you've ever been on a panel with me, or attended a panel with me, you'll know that I'm not opposed to topic drift, so long as it remains interesting and vaguely tangential. If I'm the one shutting you down, it's because you're so far off topic that you're no longer even in the topic's time zone.)

So please. This is a plea for everyone, male and female, who attends conventions and goes to panels: Please don't be That Guy. Don't sit to take up three chairs, sticking fingers in your facial orifices, and try to engage women in discussions on how rape in literature is awesome and not inappropriate in the least. Don't look offended when the panelists don't want to hand the panel to you, so that you can tell us about your magnum opus and why we all need to read it. And please, please, don't be creepy. For the rest of the weekend, if I saw That Guy, I moved to another elevator.

Let's play nicely with the other fans, and only creep them out with their permission, okay? I've done my best to be general here, but this one specific incident really drove home why this is something that needs to be said. No one was touched, cornered, or specifically harassed, but I had three people who attended that panel tell me how uncomfortable That Guy made them. Beyond that, I know how uncomfortable he made me.

I'm just saying.

ETA: Because this has come up twice, and is hence distracting: "please don't take up three chairs" does NOT mean "please don't be fat at a panel." You may be as fat as you do or do not wish to be, and as long as you're happy and healthy, I'm happy for you. But as I say on a regular basis, your backpack does not deserve a chair of its own. Neither does your leg, unless you are injured and require elevation. Neither does your arm. And if you're taking a chair each for your leg, torso, and arm, you have perhaps crossed a line.
Tags: contemplation, cranky blonde is cranky, don't be dumb, in the wild, post-con
  • Post a new comment

    Error

    Anonymous comments are disabled in this journal

    default userpic

    Your reply will be screened

    Your IP address will be recorded 

  • 222 comments
Previous
← Ctrl ← Alt
Next
Ctrl → Alt →

karenhealey

January 21 2011, 16:16:56 UTC 6 years ago Edited:  January 21 2011, 16:17:49 UTC

I think I've met That Guy (he looked somewhat different).

Thanks for this post.
Very welcome.
Extreme DO NOT WANT. Every time I thought it couldn't get worse, you had a new paragraph. I'm shuddering in sympathy.
It was epic. And icky.
That Guy... oh, yuck. How I *love* that type. /irony off
I once experienced something similar during a filk circle. That Guy was sitting next to me... scratching himself all the time the circle lasted. From the very beginning until I went to bed at about four in the morning. Not because I was so very tired, but because I could not stand that scratching anymore (and I was really disgusted by the fact that he examined his fingernails after a time of scratching...eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwww). He was The Same Guy who came to another filk circle barefoot, exposing toe nails nobody in the entire world wanted to see.
I had "chick in spandex pants, with no undies, sitting with her legs open." Why do so many people assume they're invisible?

aryana_filker

6 years ago

deakat

6 years ago

aryana_filker

6 years ago

deakat

6 years ago

aryana_filker

6 years ago

aryana_filker

6 years ago

deakat

6 years ago

aryana_filker

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

aryana_filker

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

aryana_filker

6 years ago

That... was highly disturbing and yet unsettlingly familiar. I'm sure everyone has a story about That Guy. And That Guy rarely actually seems to think of himself as That Guy....
Of course not! He's not inappropriate, he's special.

kippurbird

6 years ago

dornbeast

6 years ago

May I add "Please don't be That Person who is a self-appointed expert on the matter at hand and try to take over the discussion."

I'm all for the audience sharing info (god knows, I come away from a lot of costuming panels I've moderated knowing something new) but there's always That Person who seems to think this is their big shot at taking center stage. Or something.

(this goes double for self-appointed experts who are WRONG)
Oh jeez. Fandom is unfortunately full of that sort -- I call 'em Oscar Wilde Wannabes. Or maybe Commander McBragg. The most fascinating people in the room... just ask 'em.

britgeekgrrl

6 years ago

admnaismith

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

marlowe1

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

drcpunk

6 years ago

*stands and applauds*
*curtsies*
engage women in discussions on how rape in literature is awesome and not inappropriate in the least

I am going to go out on limb & suggest that this is excellent advice for persons participating in crit groups as well, particularly the kind of open-enrollment groups sponsored by bookstores & suchlike. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that rape, explicit material of any flavor and, oh yeah, child porn needs to be handled on a prior-consent-and-maybe-not-even-then-basis.

::headdesk::

I recently had to boot That Guy out of my RL writing group for electing to read a scene from the last category to the group. As I said to the president of the broader organization, a) no; and b)no.

Ugh.
I think your limb is a very solid one.
If it takes that much to get you annoyed, you're a lot more tolerant than I am. :-) I'd like a means of evicting people who attend panels for the purpose of taking them over from the panelists...even without all that other stuff.
I'm actually slow to really annoy. I calm down fast. This is why we still have a planet.

drcpunk

6 years ago

Ugh. what a creep.

that aside, guess I better drop fifty pound before I go to sit in on a panel. I wouldn't want to take up three chairs :P
Absolute apologies if that came across as "don't be fat at a panel." I have been fat at a panel, as has my date, my sister, and once, my Great Dane. The issue was that he was sitting in such a way as to sprawl across three seats, in the front row.

This falls into the category of "your backpack does not deserve its own seat in the crowded room."

nyxalinth

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

archangelbeth

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

dulcinbradbury

6 years ago

archangelbeth

6 years ago

dulcinbradbury

6 years ago

archangelbeth

6 years ago

living400lbs

6 years ago

living400lbs

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

Having run alt lifestyles panels at NorwesCon for several years, I can totally empathize.

*shudder*
You have my sincere sympathies.

aliciaaudrey

6 years ago

sirriamnis

6 years ago

lysystratae

6 years ago

jerusha

6 years ago

lysystratae

6 years ago

geeklite

6 years ago

Yep, I have met this guy. In fact, I may have 'accidentally' missed a coach home from a roleplaying convention, instead getting one a) an hour later and b) not even going to the right city in order to avoid him. Eeeeurgh.
Ugh.
Sounds as if you handled it pretty well, though. Hugs for your frustration and creeped-out-edness.
Thank you, darlin'.
I was at the panel, and I kept having to fight the urge to cover my ears every time he opened his mouth. Ugh.

I was, however, pleased to see the panelists shut him down. I've seen panels where someone like that is allowed to take over the discussion, it's not pretty.
I don't let that happen. Not unless the moderator shuts me down for making people play nicely.
My advisory as an undergrad once literally STOPPED A LECTURE to explain that he was not a robot, students sitting in the rows were not invisible, and he could SEE you pick your nose/text your friend/adjust your 'package'/ect ect.

"YOU ARE NOT THE INVISIBLE MAN." he yelled. "I am NOT BLIND. TRY TO BEHAVE LIKE AN ADULT AND NOT A PRE-SCHOOLER!" I believe he may have hopped. It was very, very funny.

This was apparently better than what he used to do, which was throw the whiteboard eraser at people. The college attorneys told him that was a no-no. I asked him about it once, and he gave me this complicated theory about the contract between professor and student and New Hampshire's lack of repealing corporal punishment (he was a very fine litigator before he was a professor).

It was hilarious. I miss that man.
adviser. Not advisory. Thanks autocorrect!!!

scifantasy

6 years ago

aliciaaudrey

6 years ago

scifantasy

6 years ago

sirriamnis

6 years ago

aliciaaudrey

6 years ago

Oh ye gods, I'd've been majorly creeped out, too.

And even beyond being That Guy in terms of social norms and behavioural appropriateness and hygiene issues...dude. This panel is not for you to recap your "great literatuuuuuuure." No. No, no, no. Save it for the next schmuck you corner on the elevator. At least then, they can mace you.
WORD.

Deleted comment

As am I, but hey. At least we were in a group.
*beth nods sagely and remembers That Guy and how much she was wincing. from the back row*

Thank you for the shut-down on him!
We do our best!
Yikes! What a creeper. I would be seriously weirded out, too. :(
It was...icky.
I literally stopped eating my lunch as I read More questions from the audience. This is the point at which That Guy began truly interacting. "How do I get more readers for my fanfic?" he asked. "I wrote an alternate universe [SHOW] [SEASON], where instead of [MAN] killing [WOMAN], he rapes her."

And I became a little ill at Please don't be That Guy, part three: If you think there is ANY CHANCE that you might become visibly aroused by live women saying the word "porn," please DO NOT sit in the front row at a panel on fanfiction. They're going to say it, and what's going to happen is going to happen, and then I'm going to have to fight the urge to eject you from the room.

I now have visions of this man going back to an abandoned home in rural Wisconsin, where he steals WiFi from the neighbors and wears the skins of his victims while writing fanfic.... o_0
Congratulations on having woven a Geiner into this discussion!:)

andrian6

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

andrian6

6 years ago

If you think there is ANY CHANCE that you might become visibly aroused by live women saying the word "porn," please DO NOT sit in the front row at a panel on fanfiction.

In addition to the Ew, I'd like to snark that I'm surprised it was big enough to notice.

I'll go back to ewwing now.
It was the two-sizes too small black sweatpants that allowed that to be noticed. Double dose of "ewwww!"

hooton

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

Please send a physical description of this fellow to feedback@arisia.org. He may not have specifically harassed you, but he generally created a hostile environment, and if he harassed someone else we may already be considering his case and want corroborating information.

This goes in general. We want to know, even if the incident does not seem actionable by itself, because we may have other information.
"I wrote an alternate universe [SHOW] [SEASON], where instead of [MAN] killing [WOMAN], he rapes her."

The other inappropriate behavior is certainly relevant, and I would generally support reminding people about. But I would urge people to report, given that quote above, as palmwiz is suggesting.

It is very likely this is not isolated behavior.

dulcinbradbury

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

For some reason this reminds me of the episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry loans Jason Alexander his pen and Jason Alexander puts it in every orifice he can think of and there's a long discussion about how he'd put it up his ass if he could have done it at the table without anyone saying anything.

Great episode.

Horrible attendee.

I have come to accept that encountering creepy socially maladjusted folks are the price we have to pay for finding a place full of geeks that don't make us feel like the weirdest people in the room. By most standards, everyone at a Con is socially maladjusted, but it's just so strange to note how many people are socially maladjusted by the standards of Con.

Now if it was a fan fic story about Porky raping Elmer Fudd - well it'd be a George Carlin steal.
Now you're reminding me of a Carrie Fisher-dom: "Great anecdote, bad life [experience]".

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

This guy is creepier than the serial killer on BART if only because he has not boundaries and no insight into himself. Anyone who thinks that talking about how much women enjoy reading about rape and is willing to take up too much space and monopolize a panel discussion is about two steps away from committing that rape and thinking he did the woman a favor. I would have spent the rest of the con walking in groups and checking for stalkers. At best he is inappropriate. At worst he is a predator.
Agreed.
People like that give humans a bad name.
Sadly true.
Thank you for this - I have had creepy That Guy experiences at a number of cons. (Actually, occasionally I think some of my students are That Guy, but I have a little more persuasive power with them, it seems.)
Well, you do control the grades.

ldyerzsie

6 years ago

seanan_mcguire

6 years ago

Previous
← Ctrl ← Alt
Next
Ctrl → Alt →