Point the First: "Not everyone who illegally downloads your book would have bought it, so you shouldn't act like they would have."
True! That being said, I know enough people who have illegally downloaded books and then bought them, or have told me to my face (or via email) that they were planning to buy the book, only then got it for free, that I feel some consideration of the number of illegal copies is warranted. Just going off what I do know, I tend to assume about one person in ten represents a "lost sale." This accounts for new readers only, not people downloading copies of books they already own.
Point the Second: Downloading copies of books you already own is a morally gray area.
True. I completely understand and sympathize with people who download virtual copies of books they already own. Unfortunately, a) I don't own the e-book rights to my books right now, and thus can't say "sure, have a PDF with proof of purchase," and b) the methods for getting those downloads are non-legal. There's not a private literary speakeasy where you have to send in a photo of yourself with your legal physical copy before you get the download link. And so while I can understand the moral ambiguity of it all, I can't endorse the practice.
Point the Third: It's not piracy, it's copyright infringement.
Okay, true. For precision of language, I should call it copyright infringement. But the people who sometimes post intentionally inflammatory things on message boards aren't actually trolls, they're just being mean. In some cases, the prevailing language of the land is going to win out over precision. I apologize for any confusion.
Point the Fourth: "Does this mean you don't like me because I initially read your book in a sub-legal format?"
Did you buy the book? I mean, really, that's where my concern is here: In whether I can feed the cats. I first discovered the X-Men because my friend Lucy had an older brother who wasn't careful with his comics, and I didn't pay for those, either. As I said above, I can't condone illegal downloading, but once you've paid for the material, I lose all personal animosity.
Point the Fifth: Books and music aren't the same.
Most the research on illegal downloads has been in the music arena, and the numbers aren't the same. According to iTunes, the single song I have listened to the most often is the cover of "Livin' La Vida Loca" by Spork, which I have listened to 342 times. The single book I have read the most often is IT, by Stephen King, which I have read, if guessing generously, eighty times in the last twenty years. Many people don't re-read, or do so only sparingly. So saying that illegal downloads increase sales when you're only looking at music is like saying that breeding mice increases the elephant population.
Point the Sixth: Cory Doctorow does it.
Cory Doctorow is also recognized by my spellchecker, which doesn't recognize my name. He chose to distribute over the Internet, and it worked out awesomely for him. He's also doing Internet-savvy fiction, with a keen edge of interest for the online crowd. I write urban fantasies about women with silly names. We don't have the same target audience; it's mice and elephants again.
I'll come back and participate in the discussion more one on one later. Now? DayQuil and sleep.
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Cooks Source
November 5 2010, 18:58:57 UTC 6 years ago
OK, here's the article on the Cooks Source Plagiarism Scandal, it's called Corporate Copyright Scofflaws 0007 – Cooks Source Magazine Plagiarism Scandal.
Cooks Source - Downfall Version - Don't Drink and Watch
November 7 2010, 17:54:27 UTC 6 years ago
Who knew that the real editor of Cooks Source Magazine was Adolf Hitler? He's just a bit upset about the fuss on the internet over his plagiarizing a few articles. Just a bit upset.
Re: Cooks Source
November 9 2010, 02:31:12 UTC 6 years ago
Did you see the Video?
November 9 2010, 03:08:08 UTC 6 years ago
It's hilarious.
November 6 2010, 01:49:55 UTC 6 years ago
Moreover, the book industry and the music industry aren't the same. I don't know too many published authors personally (I think you're one of about four? five?). I do know quite a few folks who have been involved with the music industry... and everything they have to say about it is Not Pretty At All.
November 9 2010, 02:31:57 UTC 6 years ago
November 6 2010, 07:10:21 UTC 6 years ago
WHAT? There are people like this??
I think I've read The Stand something like 40 times in the last (does some math, thinks back to when she was 12/13) 15 or so years? The Dark Tower Series 4 times so far in its entirety (more for the earlier books). Very few of my books only get read once. Most average 2-3 reads.
*huffs*
November 7 2010, 06:28:19 UTC 6 years ago
November 9 2010, 02:30:27 UTC 6 years ago
November 6 2010, 08:21:08 UTC 6 years ago
Eric Flint over at Bean has extensive evidence that giving away copies of early works increases overall sales of newer works for example. Now clearly that's not an argument you can make for a new or up-and-coming writer.
Similarly with music, if someone told me "hey Mark, I liked your CD so much I downloaded it from some torrent site" I'd probably punch them. Hard. On the other hand I'd be pretty pleased if they downloaded it once and then bought 10 physical copies to give away as Christmas presents.
Wrong
November 6 2010, 14:28:16 UTC 6 years ago
Actually it is an argument you can make to an up and coming writer. Free samples will increase your sales. What writer doesn't want increased sales?
It's a numbers game. Say they give out 1,000 free dead tree copies of Rosemary and Rue, the first book in the Toby series. Seanan makes nothing from those 1,000 copies. It's a cost to the publisher - I don't know exactly how much, but since Amazon sells it for $7.99, let's say the cost is $2.00 (I have no idea if these is a reasonable cost or not - I'm just tossing numbers). OK, so it costs the publisher $2,000.
Now assume that a lot of people like the book enough to buy the second two, and the third when it hits the shelves in April. Exactly how this works (maybe George hates the book, but passes it on to Carrie who loves it) doesn't matter. What matters is how many people will buy. Say sales of the second two books increase by 1000 copies each. It's nice, but there's not enough money there to make a difference.
So instead the publisher gives out an ebook, in PDF (the most easily read) format. Total cost is really low, because they didn't have to cut down trees, ship them, etc. 300,000 copies are downloaded, and who knows how many go around the file sharing networks.
But sales of the second two books increase - maybe they sell 10 or 20 thousand more copies than the first book did. Seanan is happy. The publisher is happy. Everyone makes some extra money, and when the fourth book is published in 2011, it fairly flies off the shelves.
As I said, it's a numbers game. But the free copies have to get to the right audience, and getting them there is the hard part. Offering free copies of Rosemary and Rue to a biker gang probably wouldn't increase sales, and may have negative health effects on the person involved. Offering them to teen girls at all of the local high schools would probably be effective. Offering them at SF cons would be effective.
Here's a question that only Seanan knows the answer to. How hard would it be to get back the Ebook rights to Rosemary and Rue? Are they actually doing anything with it? OK, they are. It does appear to be available for the Sony reader, but it's not available for the Kindle or the IPad, the two most popular platforms, which means that they probably are not selling a lot of copies. And at $6.99 I'm damned sure that they aren't, since you can buy the dead tree version for $7.99. In my opinion their pricing is idiotic. For that matter, so is their marketing. It took a fair bit of searching to find. The dead tree edition is easy to find using the same search techniques.
OK, we've been talking around Seanan.
Seanan, this is for you direct. The next time contract negotiations come up, hang onto the ebook rights. Seriously. I doubt that you are being paid a lot for them at present because you aren't Steven King (only you and your agent know). So it probably wouldn't make that big a difference to your bottom line. Then market the ebook yourself, with a bit of help from your friends and fans, and see what happens. Maybe make it a free download, with a donate button, and offer your compact discs on the same page, along with a couple of free MP3s. Offer special deals, personally signed copies, Seanan McGuire songbooks, give them other freebies, such as studio quality pictures of you and your furry co-conspirators. See what it does to your website traffic, and your sales. If sales of that book are higher, and the only difference is offering a free ebook copy, you have your proof.
Yes, all of this takes time, which you currently don't have a lot of. Problem is that you can't trust your publisher to do all of the work, in addition to your books, they released how many other books that month? Their attention is divided. Yours isn't.
And as I said, fans, like me and the others here, will try to help. We want you to write lots more books, and that means that you have to be making a decent living doing it, and preferably a lot more than that. We want you to be a huge success, so that you are encouraged to write more.
Lots more.
Damn, but you are good.
Re: Wrong
November 6 2010, 14:40:17 UTC 6 years ago
You seem to misunderstand the situation
November 6 2010, 21:52:18 UTC 6 years ago
Seanan is working forty hours a week, and writing fifty hours a week. The has already stretched her past her limits (why do you think she has been sick so often recently). Her lifestyle is not sustainable. If she continues it, she stands a damned good change of suffering from burnout.
If we were to follow your suggestion, nothing would change. To me, your argument is cruel.
If we follow my suggestion, it may be possible to reduce the stress on her. Reduce the stress, and she will be healthier and happier, and incidentally the already high quality of her writing will probably improve. Even if it doesn't, as long as she is happier and healthier, I'd call it a win.
Re: You seem to misunderstand the situation
November 7 2010, 06:25:37 UTC 6 years ago
If many fans or friends wished to help an author, the author might need to make choices about who does what, placing the author in a potentially uncomfortable managerial position over friends and other people volunteering their time. Or, said author could leave it to others to organize actions, and risk that something of less quality or speed than hoped is produced. This places the author in an awkward position: how, as the author, do you chastise, or reject the product of, volunteers or fans whose assistance you actually requested, or at least accepted? Do you endorse something sub-par to spare their feelings? How much rework can you ask them to do? Even if they do good work, how *much* can you ask of them, and for how long? How many one-act dramas will be written, and friendships or author/fan relationships soured, along the way? And how much is all this distracting you from the actual business of writing?
I have an author friend I dearly love. If there is a crisis, we always come through for each other, no matter how bad it's gotten, how much it costs or how inconvenient it is. I hope I wouldn't think twice about taking a bullet for him (though I believe that sort of thing is hard to know about yourself unless you've actually done it). But when it comes to regularly scheduled programming, I am sometimes a well-meaning flake, and distribution deadlines upon which his professional income and reputation depend are things I should not be responsible for. It's taken me a couple decades to admit this about myself; some authors' fans and friends might not know just how flaky they really are yet, and a friendship might not be worth the risk of finding out.
Now, I do think that this system you describe sounds like it could work very well for some. But I suspect that to really undertake fan-supported self-promotion, you have to risk hurting the feelings of some very well-meaning folks -- folks who really love your work and want to help, but suck at it -- for the sake of replacing them with more, and more "useful", fans and support people. I would think that some authors might just not want all the emotional turmoil that goes with that, and would rather that fans have no more expected of them than that they buy the work and share their love for it with others in their own ways. Meanwhile, people on whose active support the author is relying for his or her livelihood can be contractually obligated to perform their agreed-upon actions, while trusted friends provide emotional support and advice, help to whatever extent they wish or are able on a day-to-day basis, and serve as a highly reliable backup rescue service, just in case everything goes to hell and said author needs to sleep on someone's couch and not think about writing for a few months while he or she recovers and prepares to re-enter the fray.
So, to sum up: while I don't how Seanan specifically feels, I imagine that some authors may not want to increase the risk of personally hurting good friends, or even fans, for the sake of their writing careers, even if it means that their careers must end. And it does seem to me that adopting such a fan- and friend-supported promotion and distribution network increases that risk.
Stress
6 years ago
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Hyperbolic
6 years ago
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Re: Wrong
November 7 2010, 06:31:24 UTC 6 years ago
Kindle Edition
November 7 2010, 17:30:12 UTC 6 years ago
Hum, it didn't show up when I searched Amazon. Maybe it's because I live outside of the U.S.
Re: Kindle Edition
6 years ago
Re: Kindle Edition
6 years ago
Re: Wrong
November 9 2010, 01:48:10 UTC 6 years ago
If things change, they'll change, and I'm working my butt off to change them. But "please don't steal my books" wasn't intended as an invitation to tell me how to run my life, and it's just freaking me out at this point. :(
Thank you.
Re: Wrong
November 9 2010, 03:38:06 UTC 6 years ago
Most people, myself included, would love to be able to really work their butt off :) Damn, I'm getting so wide that I often take the chair with me when I stand!
November 6 2010, 09:35:28 UTC 6 years ago
I won't say I have never downloaded a torrent as that would be untrue. I rarely would touch movies unless they were older ones where no reasonable priced DVD was available.
TV shows have been my main temptation. Back in the days of videos and before the internet there was still 'illegal' sharing but it came in the form of taping from the telly and sending the shares to friends overseas who might not get the broadcast for ages if at all.
I do believe that torrents and the like have changed the way in which TV shows are broadcast. In the UK we now have BBC iplayer allowing legal downloads of shows and my subscription service also has various 'catch-ups' if a programme is missed. They too are launching a 'player' for timed downloads.
The scheduling too is quicker. We used to wait ages for Stateside shows - years sometimes and now, I guess in the knowledge that people will download them - they tend to air much more promptly sometimes just a few days after the States and 'Lost''s finale was done at the same time.
OK it means have those annoying breaks the US series take but still nice to be able to not be spoilt and be able to take part in current discussions.
So these days I rarely need to d/l unless say my box has managed to cut off the beginning or end of an episode or failed to record and there is no repeat scheduled. Or a series has started and I discover it 2-3 episodes in. I don't clutter up my harddrive with keepingthem, it is watch and delete.
As for ebooks, although not my favourite format (I like printed books) perhaps lowering the price will help or initiatives that allow for low-cost subsciption the way many audiobooks are now marketed.
I do also feel that authors speaking out in a reasonable way helps too. There will always be those people who feel entitled to something for nothing but I truly believe that most readers and especially readers of SF/F have over the years proved themselves supportive of what often are under-rated genres.
Unlike many mainstream authors there isn't the distance between author and reader, there are conventions and events where people run shoulders and take part in discussions.
Hope your cold is getting better and your cats are loving you up. (Mine always do when I am sick.)
November 11 2010, 17:20:45 UTC 6 years ago
Lost Book Sales
November 8 2010, 03:03:07 UTC 6 years ago
Diane Duanne posted a link to Why offshore ebook customers are so often frustrated, which links to Lost Book Sales Dot Com. Interesting stuff.
Re: Lost Book Sales
November 8 2010, 20:06:45 UTC 6 years ago
Re: Lost Book Sales
November 8 2010, 22:02:02 UTC 6 years ago
Yeah, I seem to be getting a lot of these, mostly from Dianne Duanne and Debbie Ohi. Here's another one Why The Book Business May Soon Be The Most Digital Of All Media Industries
November 12 2010, 04:53:34 UTC 6 years ago
I was thinking about the differences between the two, and it occurred to me that each song on an album is roughly equal to a chapter in a book. Going with that, music is commonly uploaded and shared on a chapter-by-chapter basis, and people sample chapters before going to buy the whole novel, as it were. With music, each song can stand on its own without the others. Not so with chapters of a book. Literary piracy, it's the whole enchillada and, like you said, re-reading isn't common enough that people feel going to buy the book after downloading it is justified. Often, people download specifically because they *don't* want to pay. Ever.
November 21 2010, 00:45:05 UTC 6 years ago
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