Point the First: "Not everyone who illegally downloads your book would have bought it, so you shouldn't act like they would have."
True! That being said, I know enough people who have illegally downloaded books and then bought them, or have told me to my face (or via email) that they were planning to buy the book, only then got it for free, that I feel some consideration of the number of illegal copies is warranted. Just going off what I do know, I tend to assume about one person in ten represents a "lost sale." This accounts for new readers only, not people downloading copies of books they already own.
Point the Second: Downloading copies of books you already own is a morally gray area.
True. I completely understand and sympathize with people who download virtual copies of books they already own. Unfortunately, a) I don't own the e-book rights to my books right now, and thus can't say "sure, have a PDF with proof of purchase," and b) the methods for getting those downloads are non-legal. There's not a private literary speakeasy where you have to send in a photo of yourself with your legal physical copy before you get the download link. And so while I can understand the moral ambiguity of it all, I can't endorse the practice.
Point the Third: It's not piracy, it's copyright infringement.
Okay, true. For precision of language, I should call it copyright infringement. But the people who sometimes post intentionally inflammatory things on message boards aren't actually trolls, they're just being mean. In some cases, the prevailing language of the land is going to win out over precision. I apologize for any confusion.
Point the Fourth: "Does this mean you don't like me because I initially read your book in a sub-legal format?"
Did you buy the book? I mean, really, that's where my concern is here: In whether I can feed the cats. I first discovered the X-Men because my friend Lucy had an older brother who wasn't careful with his comics, and I didn't pay for those, either. As I said above, I can't condone illegal downloading, but once you've paid for the material, I lose all personal animosity.
Point the Fifth: Books and music aren't the same.
Most the research on illegal downloads has been in the music arena, and the numbers aren't the same. According to iTunes, the single song I have listened to the most often is the cover of "Livin' La Vida Loca" by Spork, which I have listened to 342 times. The single book I have read the most often is IT, by Stephen King, which I have read, if guessing generously, eighty times in the last twenty years. Many people don't re-read, or do so only sparingly. So saying that illegal downloads increase sales when you're only looking at music is like saying that breeding mice increases the elephant population.
Point the Sixth: Cory Doctorow does it.
Cory Doctorow is also recognized by my spellchecker, which doesn't recognize my name. He chose to distribute over the Internet, and it worked out awesomely for him. He's also doing Internet-savvy fiction, with a keen edge of interest for the online crowd. I write urban fantasies about women with silly names. We don't have the same target audience; it's mice and elephants again.
I'll come back and participate in the discussion more one on one later. Now? DayQuil and sleep.
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November 4 2010, 23:21:38 UTC 6 years ago
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She's definitely selling herself short
November 5 2010, 00:02:48 UTC 6 years ago
She's a damned good writer.
Re: She's definitely selling herself short
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November 4 2010, 23:24:36 UTC 6 years ago
So... I already own ALH, but I don't have the copy I paid for, yet. :( *eyes bookstore's supplier and gets out sharp stick to go poke them. Again.*
November 5 2010, 01:30:30 UTC 6 years ago
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November 4 2010, 23:30:00 UTC 6 years ago
Feel better!
November 4 2010, 23:56:28 UTC 6 years ago
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November 4 2010, 23:49:48 UTC 6 years ago
On the other hand, I re-read a lot of my books, and including re-reads I'll happily read about 200 books a year.
It just happens that with your books, I bought both Rosemary and Rue and A Local Habitation together just after ALH came out, because they had been recommend by people I trust. Then I bought Feed and pre-ordered An Artificial Night based on how much I liked the first two.
But, when th opportunity to grab an ARC presented itself, I thrust my hand to the sky because that way I got to read it a week earlier (once you factor in shipping) than I would have done otherwise, and that's totally worth it to me.
I would probably do the same with a free online copy, if it meant getting to read the story sooner, but that wouldn't stop me buying it as soon as I could afford to do so.
November 5 2010, 01:31:48 UTC 6 years ago
I <3 re-reading.
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November 4 2010, 23:52:09 UTC 6 years ago Edited: November 4 2010, 23:55:11 UTC
I don't have an ebook reader, yet, but I think my sticking point would be "books I already own in dead tree format" - I'm on fixed income (disability) and am limited to one new book a month (sometimes two paperbacks; if I get a hardcover and it's not discounted, it's a book in two months). Luckily, my local library system is *fantastic* - huge selection of SF&F - borrowed both R&R and Feed from them. Unluckily, library books mean I don't have it to re-read at 3 in the morning.
And... who knew, re-reading wasn't common? I had to put about 2/3 of my library back into storage; the remaining 1200 books, except for the nonfiction and the Patrick O'Brian, have all been re-read in the last four years.
So I suspect I'll buy legal e-copies of books that I already have, only if they're at a $5 price break, because otherwise I wouldn't be buying other new books.
Stuff to think about, though. And needing to feed the cats is an excellent reason for people to go buy the e-copies. (My kitty - see userpic - is getting very frail, and can only keep baby food down, so she's at about $3/day for food. Plus vet expenses. *crying* (not at cost, at her fragility and emaciated look. She used to be plumpalicious, dammit. 'S what happens when you adopt older rescue kitties. And yes, I'll do it again, and did it before. But it's so hard when it's near the end.))
edited to clarify "local library system" and "my own library" (which latter is also, to some people, huge *grin*)
November 5 2010, 01:32:11 UTC 6 years ago
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November 4 2010, 23:58:35 UTC 6 years ago
I'll leave it at this:
I know many artists in many media forms.
I want to make sure they get paid so they will continue to produce work that I can therefore later enjoy.
Therefore, I buy books I love. If not initially (I check books out from the library these days if I don't think I will reread them--because I re-read books I like, often several times, and in some cases, I buy books several times because I've read them to bits) then after I have read my library copy and decided said book deserves a place in my personal collection. I buy songs I like. I buy art I enjoy. I buy, not because I have tons of money (because I am poor as dirt right now due to the crappy economy), but because it is worth my limited discretionary income to make sure artists of all forms that I love can keep entertaining me.
And that's all I have to say 'bout that.
November 5 2010, 00:07:24 UTC 6 years ago
Look, despite our wildest fantasies, I know *just* enough genre authors, niche musicians, and artists with devoted but small fans to know that most artistic types don't make a lot of money at what they do, EVEN IF it's fairly popular and EVEN IF they can sell it.
Nearly all genre authors I have met, know of, or have heard about have to hold down a day job.
Nearly all the ones I know about that don't can do it because they did something else first that provided a little nest egg.
Some people think theft (and I consider downloading an illegal copy of a book a form of theft--get into the technicalities of this with me if you dare, I have a law degree and I know how to parse legalese better than nearly all laypeople, but I also know how to call hiding behind the technicalities of language what it is, which is bullshit) doesn't matter if you're stealing from someone--especially a big faceless company--who's already making a fuckton of money, so what do they notice or care?
I've met people who feel JUSTIFIED in doing so because companies are big and evil (and frankly they often are IMO) and so they're sticking it to The Man.
Most genre authors? they aren't wealthy. So you're not just stealing from big anonymous book sellers and publishers. You're stealing from people who really need it to keep doing what you presumably want them to do, which is produce written material for books.
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November 5 2010, 01:33:33 UTC 6 years ago
True.
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November 5 2010, 01:33:51 UTC 6 years ago
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November 5 2010, 01:34:03 UTC 6 years ago
November 5 2010, 00:24:21 UTC 6 years ago
One thing I would *not* do is illegally download your books and then fail to buy the dead tree editions if I liked what I saw and had the intent of actually reading them. But I might download them on the same principle as picking the physical books up and looking inside before I laid down money at a bookstore. I want to see what I'm getting. If I didn't like them, I wouldn't buy them. If I did, I would. What I've actually downloaded is a convenient method of making my shopping decision. I will hasten to add that I would also not further distribute copies if I did download them.
My think is if you released the first chapter or two as a free sample on the Internet, that would serve the purpose of people who want to look before they buy, and it might even discourage people from torrenting the full copies. For my purposes one chapter would work just as well to do the looking-before-buying thing.
How the heck did security get compromised on the electronic editions anyhow? Or did someone scan them in?
I happen to like books I can hold in my hand, but here's a thought. What if the people who were okay with reading a novel on their computer screen were asked to give you money directly if they had downloaded the book and liked it enough to keep?
November 5 2010, 01:36:12 UTC 6 years ago
The issue with soliciting money from people who illegally downloaded circles back to my silly addiction to having a professional copyeditor. The publisher pays me; I don't pay the publisher. So if you pay me directly, the publisher goes out of business. Most of the people—by no means all, but most—producing professional-quality novel-length work are working at that level because they've worked with professionals. So the publishers remain a necessity.
I love my publishers. I want their lights to stay on.
Pardon, but you are missing the point
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Re: Pardon, but you are missing the point
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Ah, work-life balance issues
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November 5 2010, 00:28:51 UTC 6 years ago
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November 5 2010, 00:31:14 UTC 6 years ago
Not, of course, that this makes illegal downloading any more legal or any more right. But it's not just Cory Doctorow.
*(link; the essays are over in the Prime Palaver section on the left. [Sorry, I don't have time to find exactly which ones discuss it.] They are a bit dated, so I don't know how the numbers hold up now, but I do know that if it didn't work they wouldn't still have the books up, almost ten years later.)
November 5 2010, 01:39:13 UTC 6 years ago
Illegally downloading, as many others have brought up, creates the opportunity to view the creator as "The Man," someone who won't mind a little theft. It's the difference between a free cookie to show you my bakery is awesome, and you stealing one while my back is turned. I really think the free vs. stolen psychology needs to be considered.
Maybe you should switch publishers
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November 5 2010, 00:31:26 UTC 6 years ago
A book that I have prior purchased in dead tree format and is NOT available in E-book format for sale but which I wish to read on my Kindle so as not to lug said dead-tree on a plane. An example of this would be the latest Ring of Fire hardback tome. I purchased a hardcover copy, placed it into a box and found a digital copy. I did this because the publisher has chosen at least for now not to make the book available in the Kindle store.
A piece of music which I had prior purchased in which the media has been damaged or rendered unusable. Example in this case, my CD copy of Disney Event Party music which I wanted for Halloween somehow got cracked. I was ok downloading a new copy in digital mode because I had purchased a copy fairly, in this case it is basically no different than if I had backed up the CD to PC (which I should have done)
Anything else, if I want it, I buy it.
November 5 2010, 01:39:37 UTC 6 years ago
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Out Of Copyright
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Corey
November 5 2010, 00:35:13 UTC 6 years ago
Um, you are underselling yourself. You can compete with Corey quite easily. I've read all of your books. The only book of his that I've managed to get more than half way through is 'Content', which is non-fiction. In my opinion, you are a better writer, even though both of you have won a Campbell Award.
On the other hand he's better at self promotion. In fact he's a wizard at it. I sent him a tweet (don't know if he will see it, he has 82,894 followers on Twitter) asking him to tell you about the coffee bean bags. To quote his website:
This is what the coffee bean bags were for. I gather from the excited nature of his tweets at the time, it was a success.
Just think of what you could do - CD plus Book combination. Maybe a songbook included. A few cat hairs added for reality. I suspect you could add a lot of fans. You only need 81,000 to catch up to Corey. Or you could try and catch up with @Neilhimself, he's got 1.5 million followers!
Re: Corey
November 5 2010, 01:41:16 UTC 6 years ago
He's definitely a self-promotion god, though. I have to give him that. And he's a sweet man, too.
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November 5 2010, 00:56:38 UTC 6 years ago
November 5 2010, 01:35:40 UTC 6 years ago
I'm not sure why someone would have the impression that all ebooks work that way, but I'm not sure how the editor of Cooks Source decided the internet is public domain, either. People are strange like that.
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Cooks Source
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November 5 2010, 01:41:45 UTC 6 years ago
I adore you right now.
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Multiple copies
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November 5 2010, 02:32:10 UTC 6 years ago
I am very good at re-reading books until they fall apart.
By the way, feel better soon.
And hardcover is better than softcover
November 5 2010, 02:34:18 UTC 6 years ago
Gotta love the feel of a new hardcover. There's nothing like it.
Re: And hardcover is better than softcover
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But you know the best thing about a good hardcover?
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November 5 2010, 04:48:25 UTC 6 years ago
Have you ever tried to burn an eBook? The smell is horrible.
Anyway, I've probably proved that I shouldn't post comments after midnight, and by the way is there a way people can get Hardbacks of your books? (Paperbacks are roughly equal to the blood of the evildoer - sure, it's human blood, but you know they deserved it anyway. Hardbacks are delicious.)
November 5 2010, 05:01:23 UTC 6 years ago
(Purchasing an author's later books in hardback appears to be a much simpler challenge involving massive sales over the course of several books, until the publisher is convinced that the market is there.)
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Hardbacks didn't exist when Jim Butcher's first Dresden Files novels were published
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Janis Ian
November 5 2010, 06:12:59 UTC 6 years ago
A while back I wrote a couple of articles, or rather I should say Janis Ian wrote a couple of articles, and I republished them with some commentary. What's really cute about this, is Janis was writing about what we have been discussing today, back in 2002, and she came to some really interesting conclusions. The originals were printed in Performing Songwriter magazine, and Janis has had copies on her website ever since.
My commented version of The Internet Debacle: An Alternative View.
The copy of Internet Debacle onJanis Ian's website.
My commented version of Fallout: A Follow Up To The Internet Debacle.
The copy of Fallout on Janis Ian's website.
I was rather amused to find her mentioning Mercedes Lackey in the first article. Apparently Janis Ian also writes Science Fiction, something that I hadn't known before reading the articles.
Re: Janis Ian
November 11 2010, 17:41:00 UTC 6 years ago
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November 5 2010, 17:50:15 UTC 6 years ago
I look at the weird and wonderful things hitting shelves, and have to say that the publishers are doing a pretty good job.
November 5 2010, 13:10:08 UTC 6 years ago
November 5 2010, 17:47:19 UTC 6 years ago
November 5 2010, 14:14:16 UTC 6 years ago
Also downloaded the first Toby, read about 1/3, then bought the books. While I could make sweet love to my Ipad, I prefer books. I like how it feels in my hand.
Take that as you will. ;)
And your song about the black death came to mind today when I read: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2
So maybe it won't happen again?
Umm...
November 5 2010, 14:23:45 UTC 6 years ago
OK, I like my IPad. But make love to it? You're almost as weird as Rachel.
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November 5 2010, 17:44:45 UTC 6 years ago
How much is piracy is actually affecting?
November 5 2010, 18:58:10 UTC 6 years ago
Re: How much is piracy is actually affecting?
November 29 2010, 21:02:15 UTC 6 years ago
Re: How much is piracy is actually affecting?
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