Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

  • Mood:
  • Music:

Explaining fat shaming to my mother.

The other day, I needed to go to the mall to acquire a new bra. This happens periodically. It's a normal thing. I go to the mall for my bras because that's where the Lane Bryant is, and they make the best bras for my particular body type. What's more, I already know which of their bras will work for me and which won't, which takes a lot of the sting out of shopping. I've worked very hard to get to a place in my life where I could say "I need a new bra" and follow it up with "Let's go to the mall," rather than "Let's repair the old one with some safety pins and maybe a strip of duct tape, and I can buy the new one next month." This doesn't mean that I want to spend an hour digging through the racks, looking for the one that's Just Right. I want to know my options, I want to know what I'm buying, and I want to just do it already.

"Isn't this the store that made that ad?" Mom asked.

"Which ad?"

"The one they wouldn't show on TV."

"Oh. Yeah."

For those of you who managed to miss this whole thing, Fox and ABC refused to air a Lane Bryant commercial, saying that it was inappropriate, despite the fact that both networks air commercials for Victoria's Secret. Now, I've seen both commercials, and if you want to talk comparative nudity, well. The new line from Victoria's Secret is actually called "Naked." The Lane Bryant lingerie, on the other hand, covers a lot more, while committing the dual sins of a) being made for plus-sized women, and b) being reasonably attractive. That's obscene! We can't show that to our children, especially not during Dancing With the Stars, a show that features women wearing costumes that are closer to rumor than reality! That would be wrong! That would be...that would...

Wait, what?

Of course, the networks insist that this isn't a comment about Lane Bryant's lingerie being worn by plus-size models, even though, well, it's either that, or a comment on the immorality of wearing bras that come in colors. Rainbow Brite should be ashamed of herself. Meanwhile, over in Victoria's Secret-land, all the models are modestly wearing undies the exact color of their skins, making them look totally nude if you're not paying close attention. Much more modest.

"Why?"

"Because the models were fat, Mom."

"Really?"

"Yeah."

"But that doesn't make sense."

"Tell me about it."

The current culture of fat shaming isn't just depressing; it's outright scary. It's dehumanizing. Fat women are "whales" and "cows," not just, I don't know, fat women. Women come in all shapes and sizes! Women are healthy at all shapes and sizes! My youngest sister weighs about fifty pounds more than I do, and she is smoking hot, like a plus-sized Betty Page gone tattoo model. She dresses like she's hot, she walks like she's hot, and you know what? She's hot! She's also healthy, active, smart, and all those other things that some people think "fatties" aren't allowed to be. She looks better at her current weight than I ever would, because she's built that way.

This may be a bit of a shock to some of the folks out there deciding what is and isn't "decent," but not all bodies were created from the same template. If Kate and I were to eat identical things and do identical amounts of exercise for a week, we would not lose identical amounts of weight. If Vixy and I were to each gain ten pounds, they would not distribute themselves in identical places on our bodies. I know people who can gain weight on nothing but broccoli and lean meat, and people who can lose weight on a diet of chocolate bonbons. Fat shaming solves nothing. It doesn't make the world's plus-sized population disappear in a puff of Twinkie-scented smoke; it just makes teenage girls develop eating disorders, grown women lie about their weight, and small children tell their mothers they don't want dinner because they're scared of getting fat.

"That's just stupid."

"I know."

"Those people should cut that out."

Also, on the practical side of things...women are more likely to go out in public, and exercise voluntarily, when they're wearing good bras. This goes double for plus-sized women, who are (surprise, surprise) more likely to have large breasts, and thus need the support and stabilization of a good bra. So if the goal is really making all the fat women into thin women, they should be getting government bra service as an incentive to get out and move around more. Not that exercise is the absolute answer for everyone—that's another can of worms, and goes back to my "not all bodies were created from the same template" point—but hell, it would be a start. Saying "ew, that's indecent" doesn't do anybody any good. Except maybe the viewing public that gets spared the sight of all those "fatties," and well. I'm not so concerned about them in this particular situation.

"I wish they would, Mom."

"Tell them that."

"Okay."
Tags: cranky blonde is cranky, don't be dumb, my mom is nuts, so the marilyn
  • Post a new comment

    Error

    Anonymous comments are disabled in this journal

    default userpic

    Your reply will be screened

    Your IP address will be recorded 

  • 256 comments
Previous
← Ctrl ← Alt
Next
Ctrl → Alt →
The whole Lane Bryant 'lack of ad' issue also says more about who they expected to watch the ad, not necessarily who the ad was directed towards...if you get my drift.

Like...people would change the channel and stuff. >_>
See, even that doesn't make sense though. I would venture to say MOST married and living-with straight men are with women who look more like that than Miranda Kerr ... so what they're seeing on TV wouldn't be much different than what they see every night at home.

(You know, I wouldn't mind the ad being pulled if it meant I never had to look at another Victoria's Secret ad, too. Or Jenny Craig bikini ads. Ugh.)

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

veronica_rich

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

more likely to have large breasts

They want women to have large breasts without having the proportional body to go with them. If they want 50 inch boobs, it comes with a 50 inch ass.
and a belly :)

martianmooncrab

7 years ago

mariadkins

7 years ago

brightlotusmoon

7 years ago

technoshaman

7 years ago

Deleted comment

brightlotusmoon

7 years ago

valdary

7 years ago

Deleted comment

vixyish

7 years ago

Deleted comment

lovefromgirl

7 years ago

metalkatt

7 years ago

lovefromgirl

7 years ago

Thank you for this.
Ditto that!

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

Tell it!

Mind, the other theory I've heard is that it wasn't so much sizeist (except as a side effect) as sexist. Large, well proportioned women tend to have large breasts. Large breasts are sexy. Therefore, a larger woman is somehow (according to some people) more "obscene" than a smaller woman who is dressed even more provacatively.

If anything, I think is worse. Having people/networks decide your body is too attractive to show is really ugly.
That's...insane.

I need a nap.

mneme

7 years ago

Man alive. I did in fact manage to miss this completely.

I have the same reaction to that commercial that I had to the Dove "Real women have curves" billboard/ad campaign, which was: "I get what they're trying to do, but then why didn't they use *fat* women?"
...in a world where "plus size" models start at size 8?

One difference with the Lane Bryant bra ad is that Ashley Graham IS reportedly a size 16, which means she actually is in Lane Bryant's size range.

alicetheowl

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

dimloep_suum

7 years ago

Yes, yes, yes!!! I've never eaten as much as my thinner friends, and yet, I got heavier with each passing year. Finally, my health care practitioner explained that my body has been in starvation mode for a very long time, and is holding on to the fat because it thinks it has to. Now I'm trying to make peace with my body. It's a challenge, but it helps when I read things like this. Thank you.
OMG! Is your provider in the Seattle area, because I'm on the verge of firing mine for constant fat-hating crap.

lavenderfae9

7 years ago

sirriamnis

7 years ago

wendyzski

7 years ago

starmalachite

7 years ago

jacylrin

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

angel_vixen

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

On the exercise thing? It gets worse. If they go to a gym or swimming pool they get laughed at, at best, several people I know have been told that they aren't welcome there because they -- shock, horror -- are fat (yanno, that may be why they are there, to lose weight?) and therefore shouldn't be seen in public. (Hmm, should they be obscene in public instead?)

I don't suppose you can make some virus which only attacks thin people? Just wondering *g*...

beable

May 20 2010, 20:07:11 UTC 7 years ago Edited:  May 20 2010, 20:07:30 UTC

Well *yes* because if you had just exercised in the first place you wouldn't be fat, right?

Obviously once you've let yourself get fat you should go off and find an ice floe to sit on and put society out of the misery of having to acknowledge your presence.

Actually I've got it wrong.

The real thing is that exercise is magic. If you go to the gym and your heart is truly in it and you decide as you walk in the door that you really will honest-to-god exercise and eat only lettuce for the rest of your natural life then *poof* - as you walk in the door of the gym you become a skinny person automatically. Anyone who doesn't obviously just doesn't have the correct motivation because they are fat and lazy!

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

spectralbovine

7 years ago

It's like They believe that breasts are some magickal creatures which just happen to exist on women's bodies because it's their preferred habitat. And that lingerie ads are nature documentaries.

Ick.

(I feel like I should send my fabulous local woman-owned and operated bra shop a thankyou note and a fruit basket.)
Has she got a website? More business would be a great giftie...

jenk

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

That is fabulously sexy, but it's also classy. I could potentially see if they'd objected to it on the say, 'moral' grounds of 'she's going off on her lunch hour to have hot sex', but on the point of her cleavage? That's just ridiculous, given what gets shown in prime time.

At least her clothes fit and flatter her body, and she looks damned good.
I can see the moral objection, but not the cleavage one.

ladymondegreen

7 years ago

Awesome post, and I agree with your mom. Those people should cut that out.
If only my powers were as great as she thinks they are.
As a plus size girl who both believes she is smoking hot and knows other plus size women are the same, I say AMEN!!!!!
Is that icon a picture of you? Then I agree with your self-assessment ;)

apocalypticbob

7 years ago

elorie

7 years ago

dimloep_suum

7 years ago

filkertom

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

This happens in the world of Big or Tall stores, too. (Note I do not say Big and Tall stores.) Their catalogs and websites show husky looking men, but they're not chunky like I am. In fact, you will never see a model like me in a Big or Tall ad. You just won't. Some of the models in the Big or Tall ads aren't Big or Tall, even! It annoys me!
How are you supposed to know what the clothes really look like if you can't see them on people the right size?

Arrgh.
Thank you for this. The commercial saw a few views at my house and raced through most of my Twitter feed. My 'moonlighting' job is as a model, and since I'm over a size ten I, uh...well, I don't get nearly as many jobs as other ladies might. It's very, very wonderful to read posts like this.
I'm glad. :)
"Those people should cut that out."
It's funny that I can hear your mom in my head saying this. Very sincerely.
I know, right? I also love how she's just sure those people will stop if Seanan tells them to. Seanan's mom is one of my favorite people.

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

Are you comfortable if I link to this post?
I would also like to link to it. I'm putting together a linkspam post on feminism, and this would fit in very nicely with some comments from my mother's friends.

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

Women come in all shapes and sizes! Women are healthy at all shapes and sizes!
Precisely. U hadn't heard about this ad because of being in the UK, but both ABC and Fox are behaving appallingly. I am sick and tired of all women's bodies being subjected to public comment at all times. We are allowed to be ourselves, d*mnit.
I hate that we're always, always up for judging, in ways that men aren't. If you and I aren't groomed and together, we're slobs. Male writers are just "casual."

la_marquise_de_

7 years ago

*waves Health at Any Size flag*

My mama's prettier than I am, but she won't believe me because she's at the upper end of department store sizes. Woman has curves I can only dream of, 'cause I was dumb and starved myself during those important developmental years. She can't even make herself go into Lane Bryant because it's "a fat women's store".

Oh, Mum.

Much love to you for this post, Seanan.
I hate that society does this to our mothers.

Much love, right back at'cha.
Complete agreement on every point, of course.

But.

Or, rather, also.

There's something else about that ad, something I don't know anyone has said, and I don't even know if it's the case, but it's the first thing I thought of when I first saw it(besides, jeez, what a smokin hot woman): ABC might not have rejected it for the perceived size of the female in it.

She's shown at the very end of the commercial, going out wearing nothing under her coat but her lingerie. The obvious implication being, she and Dan have a particular dessert in mind after lunch.

This very possibly freaked the morals police the fuck out.

Deleted comment

Deleted comment

Very welcome.
Wow - I don't understand how I missed this.
It's disturbing to say the least... the girl in the ad is gorgeous? What the hell was their problem - OMG Kids might realize being big doesn't have to mean you're ugly.

Grr grr stupid media
I think that's exactly the problem.
My friends and I have discussed that Lane Bryant ad for the last three weeks, including how society loves to fat-shame about as much as it loves to slut-shame (more on that topic when my brain crawls out of deep-freeze). I love the Lane Bryant models. Even more, I adore Kate Dillon.

I love curvy women. I'm somewhat there myself, although (unfortunately) most of my curve is in my abdomen, which I'm trying to flatten for health reasons (Type 2 diabetes + spider abdomen = no fun). And there are so many men and women like me who adore women with CURVES. So what if you can pinch an inch? What the hell? Why do all women have to be teeny and skinny? Are we not supposed to take up space, and just disappear into the woodwork until some guy notices us?

I say, the hell with that noise. Bring on the big girls! Especially the smoking hot redhead with the goddess-like hips and bosom. >:D Kate, darling . . .
Kate Dillon is one of the hottest women on the face of the planet.

You have excellent taste. ;)

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

i go to lane bryant for my bras, too. I had no idea Fox & ABC pulled this stunt.

Perhaps some cacique bra-wearin' zombies need to visit the tv execs?

I think the women in the LB commercial are much sexier than those in the VS commercial.

emberleo

May 21 2010, 01:02:18 UTC 7 years ago Edited:  May 21 2010, 01:03:20 UTC

Dear gods, I love the idea of a whole crowd of women in Cacique bras, otherwise topless, marching on the FOX and/or ABC headquarters buildings!

--Ember--

[Edited because while Crows often Crowd and Crowds often Crow, they are nevertheless not interchangeable.]

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

That commercial was like good erotica in comparison to Victoria's Secret tacky, barely legal porno short films, er..."commercials". And stimulating to the brain in all the right ways too.

Goddamned network sizists.
So true.
Thanks for this post.

I had to go through a lot of "tsk tsk" and tongue-clicking and judgmental remarks when I put on thirty pounds in the year before my wedding.

I did this because my *thyroid failed.* I was REALLY SICK and frankly, gaining weight was kind of the least of my problems that year while we were struggling to get me on enough thyroid replacement to KEEP ME ALIVE. And frankly by the end of it all I was ready to bludgeon someone to death with my (very lovely) bouquet if I heard one more little "Oh, she's let herself go. How could she ruin her own pictures this way??? I hear she had to have her dress taken out. How many chins does she have now? Blah blah blah."

What was kind of worse was how people, when told the Unfortunate Explosion was due to an illness, were like "Oh! I was going to say! How could you do that to yourself!" and all I could think was "Wait, now you're making moral judgments about me based on my weight?...like I'm bad and weak if I put it on because of bon bons but now I'm a suffering, saintly sick person because it was a medical problem? How stupid can you get???"

Human beauty exists on all shapes and sizes, and slenderness is not some sign of human worth. A lot of people struggle with their weight, legitimately, for reasons of health...and many, many more struggle trying to fit some sort of demented ideal of having less than ten percent body fat, yet still having a solid C chest.

It's sick.
Agreed.

And I am so sorry you got that shit.

dimloep_suum

7 years ago

aliciaaudrey

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago


You know, if I'd seen that ad cold, I would have registered absolutely nothing unusual about it.

Because I was directed to it right after reading about "plus-sizegate" or whatever, I was a little puzzled and shocked. That model doesn't seem any larger or any more salacious than any other lingerie ad I can recall. She's certainly not outside any standard I'm aware of. Maybe I'm just not paying attention. What the heck is there for a network to complain about?
She doesn't have visible ribs, and is thus obese.
Previous
← Ctrl ← Alt
Next
Ctrl → Alt →