First off, I want to say that I don't have a problem with the concept of character death. Sometimes, people die. Sometimes, yes, even in fiction. And as an author, I don't think I'm allowed to have a problem with character death. There's a point in Stephen King's Misery where Annie Wilkes, the crazy nurse, is accusing Paul Sheldon of being a murderer because his main character, Misery, has died in childbirth. He protests, saying very firmly that he didn't kill her. She just died.
Sometimes characters just die.
I've had that happen to me twice now: characters I really expected were going to make it through their stories have turned around and said "no, I'm sorry, this is where I get off the train." Once that point was reached, I couldn't go back. I walked away from a book for six months once, and I still couldn't take it back. I'm not saying that fictional people have free will, but I am saying that a well-made character will do things the author doesn't expect, and that a story acquires a narrative weight that can sometimes make certain things inevitable. Sometimes the only way an author can have control is to be untrue to the story, and readers can tell when that happens. A good story is alive. Saving a character who's supposed to die can kill it. I may love zombies, but that doesn't mean I want to turn my books into zombies, y'know?
Similarly, if not the same, sometimes you just need to kill people. It's entirely unrealistic to, say, write a zombie techno-thriller in which absolutely everybody lives. So sometimes, I have characters who are just, in the immortal words of Spider Jerusalem, here to go. Not all of them actually leave! Sometimes people I created as "fire and forget" wind up sticking around, refusing to die, while characters I expected to be working with for years politely take their leave six chapters in. I try to be true to the story. I try not to fight it.
At the same time, very little pisses me off more than a bad character death. One of my favorite television shows recently killed off one of my favorite characters in a manner that was unnecessary and just plain mean. It felt like they were going "how can we make it clear that things are getting really, really serious? Hey! Let's bring back this minor character that everyone thinks we've forgotten about, and just kill the crap out of 'em! That'll make everybody sit up and take notice!" Shock and awe deaths don't do anything but upset me. I've stopped watching shows entirely for pulling that sort of stunt—after the episode of Torchwood where I spent an hour crying and saying "I am not okay with this" over and over, I took the show off my watch-list. I dropped Sanctuary over a death that felt less plot-serving and more "the focus group says..."-serving. And yes, there are books that I've thrown aside in disgust, because it all just got to be too damn mean and purposeless to take.
This is not me saying "if you kill a character I like, you, too, are dead to me." For example, one of my favorite movies is The Fly. Yes, with Jeff Goldblum. For those of you who don't know it, it's a horror movie, and things don't go well for most of the main characters. I've been known to watch it when I'm not feeling well, in the hopes that I'll fall asleep and it'll get a different ending in my dreams, Just This Once. At the same time, the ending is so right, and so justified by what came before it, that I don't mind. And that's sort of the thing. When a character's death is right and true and meant to happen, it shows, and those deaths, even when they upset me, are the way things ought to be.
Jim also makes the point—and it's a good one—that killing is contextual. If I kill someone in a Toby book, that's expected. If I kill someone in one of Mira Grant's books, that's practically a legal requirement. But if I kill someone in a Corey book, people are going to be going "Um, w-t-f, over?" and threatening me with sticks. Genre determines a lot of what you can get away with, and what I'm willing to accept as a reader or viewer. I don't like to be blindsided; I don't think anybody does. (This isn't me saying "no deaths in YA," by the way. People will die in the Clady books. Just that the genre really does determine what is and is not okay.)
I will always kill characters. I can't help it. Sometimes the story needs people I care about to die, and sometimes individual stories are just done. I will also always get upset over senseless character deaths, because there's a big, big difference between "this needed to happen" and "I'm the author, that's why."
Thoughts?
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January 7 2010, 17:02:44 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 17:04:01 UTC 7 years ago
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January 7 2010, 17:09:20 UTC 7 years ago
Wait, I take it back. I've got one murder-by-dream. Still no direct contact, and constructed so that it could be just a dream.
I may need to think on this.
January 7 2010, 17:47:51 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 17:18:16 UTC 7 years ago
I don't remember which story or author at the moment.
January 7 2010, 17:48:11 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 17:28:49 UTC 7 years ago
JMS, in Babylon 5, however, did it right. Characters died, some of them ones we really cared about, and they stayed dead. And they didn't die for no reason except the plot (or the actor left the series), it was planned and meaningful to the series.
I remember reading an 'occult' novel many years (er, decades) ago (I unremember the author, possibly Charles Williams or someone of that era) in which the major character died at the end. It was sad (she was a "good guy") but it was right, it had to happen as a sacrifice to counter the evil. In fact that's about all I remember of the book, that's how 'right' it was.
Yes, sometimes in some genres main characters have to die. In "On The Beach" everyone dies (ooh, it's an Erica song!). In others, they don't. In some cases, they can't (either the story or the genre prevents it). There's a place for all of the variations...
January 7 2010, 17:42:58 UTC 7 years ago
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January 7 2010, 17:49:04 UTC 7 years ago
I read this (Neville Shute) back in high school. I got to the end during one of my classes and was sitting there crying my eyes out. Teacher sent me to the nurse's station to get me out of her hair and so I'd stop bothering the rest of the class. lol :sigh:
January 7 2010, 17:44:48 UTC 7 years ago
If you don't want to, I'll probably go "awww" but I'm hopefully not so absent-minded as to keep pestering you 'bout it, of course. O:>
January 7 2010, 17:47:16 UTC 7 years ago
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January 7 2010, 18:04:30 UTC 7 years ago
PS: Maybe the Sanctuary character who got killed off asked for a raise :)
January 7 2010, 23:14:56 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 18:06:08 UTC 7 years ago
Even though I was aching in side the first time I killed off a character that I knew my readers were going to love, I also was crowing with diabolical delight, because it gave me the plot twist I needed, and yes, I did like knowing I was going to make my readers hurt. That sounds cruel, but I kind of figured that in the romance genre, when the reader always knows that the happy ending is coming up, having to suffer on the way is just and sound, from time to time.
At the same time, very little pisses me off more than a bad character death.
Severus Snape. 'Nuff said.
January 7 2010, 23:15:21 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 18:06:58 UTC 7 years ago
PS My new book should be out around the same time as yours :-D :-)
January 7 2010, 23:16:15 UTC 7 years ago
What's your book about?
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January 7 2010, 23:16:33 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 18:23:05 UTC 7 years ago
Personally, I thought Torchwood handled its "main character" deaths well. YMMV
Sorry we missed you on your last trip here. I was sick and in no shape to share the love. Hopefully, we'll see you later this month!
*hugs*
January 7 2010, 23:17:18 UTC 7 years ago
I have...issues...with what happened in Torchwood. If you're going to kill every character I care about, you'd damn well better make me re-invest in your show somehow, and RTD didn't.
Miss you!
January 7 2010, 18:29:03 UTC 7 years ago
In a fanfic story I wrote, I killed a major character due to plot necessity. When I decided to write a sequel, I brought her back as a zombie. It worked surprisingly well.
January 7 2010, 18:43:36 UTC 7 years ago
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January 7 2010, 23:18:10 UTC 7 years ago
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January 7 2010, 23:18:28 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 19:49:44 UTC 7 years ago
Death is a part of everything.
An author I can't stand, Laurell K. Hamilton, piles characters into her books, rarely ever kills anyone off, and makes a mess of things.
I love reading books in which the author is able to kill characters that you care about.
January 7 2010, 23:21:42 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 20:13:54 UTC 7 years ago
First it was unnammed agents
Then it was a background character that was mentioned several times (and vivid enough that people liked her without an onscreen appearance) and appeared just long enough to die.
Then I got to a very important supporting character, and yes, he had to die. It wasn't even a prolonged glorious death, either; it was literally a villain's "tidying up loose ends" death. Man, I got screamed at for that one. But it had to be done. No way was that character living after what he did to futz up the villain's plans.
In the novel I'm working on right now, siblings of the main characters may die. For the story to evolve required, and I'm going to hate it, but sometimes the darlings have to die. With this specific case, I'm not sure who's going to kick it, but someone is.
So yeah. I'm entirely with you. Sometimes, character deaths can make the story itself more real.
January 7 2010, 23:22:08 UTC 7 years ago
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January 7 2010, 22:14:53 UTC 7 years ago Edited: January 7 2010, 22:16:03 UTC
The pointless death for me in that series came in "A Feast For Crows".
(Apologies for multiple edits, those of you who get them mailed to you...)
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January 7 2010, 20:42:10 UTC 7 years ago
This is pretty much exactly where I stand, both when I write and concerning what I read (and watch, though I watch things less).
January 8 2010, 05:15:39 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 20:59:48 UTC 7 years ago
But if it's my escapeism, damnit, shaking me out of my complacency is not necessarily justified. There's nothing wrong with being a bit complacent about my fantasies. Sometimes it seems like there are authors who think it's wrong to read or watch shows or movies for relaxation purposes. I get irritable when I feel like the reason a character died is because the authors are being edgy and philosophical, rather than because it's called for in the context of the story.
--Ember--
January 8 2010, 05:16:07 UTC 7 years ago
January 7 2010, 21:05:34 UTC 7 years ago
Character death always has a certain sweet-spot you have to hit as a writer, though, I think. It's easy to tip over into 'killing without meaning' or worse, 'cheap manipulation'. The latter is one of my biggest turnoffs in fiction, I think.
January 8 2010, 05:21:51 UTC 7 years ago
I work hard to avoid going over that line. Sometimes I worry. Then my beta readers slap me in the head and tell me to get the hell back to work already.
January 7 2010, 21:14:24 UTC 7 years ago
But I HATE it when an author decides they must kill somebody off because it's what all the cool kids are doing and it'll sell books, or "just because they CAN," or because it's the latest in a long string of pain and angst and EMO that they are forcing their character through for whatever murky reason. (They may call it "Character development" but if the character doesn't obviously CHANGE afterwards, WHERE'S the "development"?!)
The writers that throw everything AND the kitchen sink at their heroes? The hacks who make the heroes life seem like an un-ending, depressing, fight for every minute? The key-pounding authors that make sure their "Heroes" NEVER get any glimmer of happiness, laughter, or cheer or any of the OTHER emotions that makes a human being- human? (Or at least likeable, in the case of the non-human types...)
Yeah- THOSE writers don't last long on my reading list. I got a copy of the "Thomas Covenant" series, (White Gold Wielder (?) and a couple of others...) I got about three chapters in and tossed the book across the room- because the author had made the protagonist so seriously emo, angry, angsty, and generally an @$$hole that I couldn't STAND him and was already rooting for the bad guy!
ON the other hand, While I hated it,and I cried, and am still not entirely sure it *HAD* to happen, I can *Almost* see the reasoning behind why Dumbledore had to go. ...
ALMOST.
OK- I'll shut up now...
January 8 2010, 05:22:20 UTC 7 years ago
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January 7 2010, 22:06:59 UTC 7 years ago
He died in battle, saving his soul brother's life. Aaaaw. Drama. Necessary drama. My betas loved the scene but wanted to strangle me. I take that as a compliment.
I must admit that re-reading the scene during editing time, it brought tears to my eyes and made me think Bad Aryana was a Bad, Bad Writer.
January 8 2010, 05:30:49 UTC 7 years ago
If you can make yourself cry, you're doing it right.
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January 7 2010, 22:10:49 UTC 7 years ago
This is something always in the back of my mind. I realized one day with one of my stories that, since the ending would involve a series of battles, it was unlikely for my gang to survive, if I wanted to be realistic. Suddenly the main character's best freind tapped me on the shoulder and said it would be him. I don't want to do it, because I really like him, but somehow it sounded natural for him to die. However, I don't really know what the tone of it will end up being (especially since I sorta view it as a project to find my style and to practice and figure out writer-ly things), and whether that tone will fit such an ending. My plan is to actually deal with it when I get there.
January 8 2010, 05:31:21 UTC 7 years ago
Good luck navigating your death scene.
January 7 2010, 22:35:30 UTC 7 years ago
I can usually take other character deaths, but if there are too many or my favorites are all killed off, I might lose interest.
January 8 2010, 05:31:59 UTC 7 years ago
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