World-building and the making of rules.

Intriguing. I love reading other peoples' worldbuilding backgrounds, and this made for really interesting reading. Thank you for sharing!

I'm about to start the first serious edit (complete with large shears for awkward paragraphs / scenes / chapters) on my first 'novel' (hah!), and I suspect that there will be a lot of "WTF? How did I think that would work?!" comments scrawled in the margins. I never expected to finish the story, so never really thought about a great many aspects in detail. And now I kinda need to. *sheepish grin*

*bites tongue*

*tries not to explode*

Please don't explode, we'd rather like to see you in unexploded form at <a href='http://www.contabile.org.uk>Van der Filk</a> next year! (The link is a subtle hint for any people who might be intending to come and haven't joined yet. Mentioning no names *g*...)

Thank you for that insight.
I enjoy watching other people's world building and reading about it afterwards. I find it a facinating exercise myself (so much so that it often interferes with my actual writing).

Whoo! That's an interesting set of consequences of the rules. I suspect you've thought about it rather more than most advocates of poly marriages have (and people thinking about 'immortal' societies as well). You could probably write up your research and conclusions for a doctorate (in your Copious Spare Time of course) *g*...

Fascinating. Of course that brings up the question in my mind, what is the standing of a changeling that is married to one of the full-blooded fae? They can't inherit from their fae parent, but does that mean they count as mortals for the purpose of marriage, or is it more complicated than that?

(Note, I'm not looking for an answer to these questions, just speculating out loud. :) )

Huh -- cool!

So what about fae who die without living issue? Closest non-changeling relative?

I assume, BTW, that a changeling becoming full fae (via, well, you know) doesn't affect inheritance at all?

Is there any discretion? Can issue be disinherited or adopted? (or is the fact that there is no alternative to primogeniture why you can't divorce your spouses if you can't find all your respective heirs?)

What about bringing in new partners to an existing marriage? Do all current partners have to consent? How does that affect inheritance? (also, in group marriages, how does inheritance work? Oldest child inherits from all parents? Or is it determined pairwise?)

Ah, yes, poking at our own logic with a sharp, pointy stick is always entertaining. This is why I try to avoid immortal characters because any societal laws basically get damned complicated with long-term memories stretching into eons.

Still, I think *ANY* made-up societal norms are going to have all the complications, entanglements, sticky questions and tough almost-answers as any in the real world do because, heck, that makes them more real, too.

And yet, you never hear of any fae lawyers (except in Ella Enchanted...) ;-)

I love how much you think about these things :-)

I did a fairly thorough world-building for a story I wrote (way more than the story needed), but the story and background materials were lost, unfortunately.

I also imagine that the ability to procreate within faerie is also much more uncommon for those races that have a very low mortality rate, that may also mean that the production of any bastards within faerie would have a more sinister stigma attached to it, as more would be at stake. The human/hybrids, being unable to inherit, would not have the same class stigma as a bastard, in fact, that may be why many of the male faeries will chose a human mistress, the ability to easier produce offspring and practice their child-rearing, husband skills before the real thing happens. Or not. use what you like, throw away the rest.

many of the male faeries will chose a human mistress, the ability to easier produce offspring and practice their child-rearing, husband skills before the real thing happens.

Possibly not just the males. I wonder if it would be a point of pride or shame to have successfully reared one or more half-blood families before attempting the same thing with another fae?

Another point - if the birth rate is very low, would grandparents (and great-grandparents, and cousins, and siblings, and everyone) have a much greater stake and presence in a fae child's life? I can't think fae parents would generally have trouble finding a babysitter at any point, for example. Fae kids are probably monitored 24/7 to make sure they don't kill or injure themselves.

On the other hand, with effective immortality, would kids matter all that much? Who cares if a kid gets killed; there'll be another one along in a century or so.

Hm! I'd never thought about it until you mentioned this, but immunity to aging really alters how property is dealt with. I imagine that in the fae realms, wills aren't particularly common.

This also means that the parents of a missing, elf-shot, or otherwise unavailable child must remain married until the child is either located or declared dead.

Is there a standard length of time after which a missing child is (or can be) declared legally dead (I presume until they would have reached adulthood, as a minimum)? What happens if they turn up after this?

Are line/group marriages or multipart marriages associative and commutative? That is, if A is married to B, and B gets married to C, is A also automatically married to C? Or are the marriages defined as separate things - in which case, do they have equal legal standing or does one have priority over the other? And if so, is it the older one or the most recent one? If the latter, are individuals pressured to reaffirm or retread the "most important" marriages?

One question: A is married to B and C is married to D. B and C get married. Are A and D married? Can B and C get legally married without involving (or at least invoking/mentioning) A and D? And if A and D are now married, what if B or C dies? (ie, are the marriage structures preserved or do they all run together into a single amorphous blob?)

Hmm...
- If there are large group marriages which are roughly equivalent to tribes or clans, are the kids expected to marry into their own group when they come of age?
- What happens when you have hundreds-strong marriage groups which traditionally dislike each other, and a married individual from each side get together and marry?
- Does that mean the groups are now one? Even if one or both of the rogues are subsequently killed or pressured to divorce?
- If one of the original groups 'divorces' the rogue(s), do they then have to separately divorce all the members of the previously-separate group one by one?
- In an A-B-C-D group marriage, are there procedures for A and B to divorce C and D with A-B and C-D still remaining married, or do A and B have to divorce everyone and then remarry between themselves?
- Can group/line marriages be legally referred to as such, so that an individual can say "I marry into clan/group X" and a group-marriage representative says "I confirm on behalf of X", without the individual having to list all the members of X they wish to marry? Or do they just have to say "I marry X" (who is a member of the group) and they're automatically married to the other ten or hundred people?

Ooo, are there separate types of marriage? Marriage for love, marriage for procreation, marriage for business/legal purposes, other... and are they all associative/commutative between forms, or can A be married to B for family purposes and to C for business purposes without A and C being legally bound?

And yah, if there's a mortal/fae legal distinction, where's the line drawn and how is it calculated? Half-blood? Changeling? Quarter-blood (each way)? Legal declaration of acceptance by a fae authority or powerful personage?

*gnaws further on concepts- NOM NOM NOM*

Oooooh, I love world-building posts. :) Thanks for the insight!

I'm currently poking at Novel #2's world-building. It involves a lot of this face --> o_0 & cringing as I find Giant Holes...

I'm kinda surprised that they put that much thought into inheritance - immortality would seem to make inheritance pretty darn close to non-existent. Sure, they can be killed - and maybe in your world this happens frequently? That would certainly explain the logic behind them taking the time to think about inheritance. Though you do realize there's a flaw in their logic?

Fae A and Fae Z get married and have Child B. They then decide to get divorced. Child B decides to belong to Fae Z's family line. So child B will inherit from Fae Z.

Except Fae Z then marries Fae L and has Child X. Now there's a problem. Both Child B and Child X have the same inheritance.

And this would get even more complicated if there were multiple children and/or multiple divorces.

Thinking more about it, I could see them practicing some form of "nest egg" inheritance as opposed to death inheritance whereby the children receive some small inheritance with which to head out into the world (so to speak) once they become adults. Or, alternatively, wealth and property isn't seen in an individual sense at all, and is instead familial - so anyone of the bloodline has access to the accumulated wealth/property of the family.

Interesting...

This is the kind of stuff that fascinates me. I made a reference to it in my review, but I don't think I was especially clear. What I was wondering is this: If I'm reading R&R correctly, there are fae who are purely one thing, e.g., Sylvester is pure-blooded Daoine Sidhe. But there are some who are mixes of different lines. (Is Raysel half Daoine Sidhe, half Kitsune?) Even leaving human blood out of the scenario, does being a mix affect one's social class and standing? Does it have political implications? Would, for example, someone who can point to thousands of years of pure Daoine Sidhe ancestors look down on Sylvester for intermarrying and having a mixed child?

And you just brought me up short with this, in another comment: All fae are related on some level, since they all trace their descendant lines back to Oberon, Maeve, or Titania. Does that include Centaurs, Selkies, Kelpies, etc? If not, which lines decend from those three, and which don't? And if there are multiple fae lines, does that mean entirely new lines, with distinctive characteristics, can arise?

The idea that parents must stay together until children are adult might also cause some homocides :)

Problems with internal continuity have always been a bugbear of mine, I appreciate that kind of attention to detail.

Plus, it makes it easier to put together the RPG later.

I am *SO* looking forward to the Octoberverse RPG.

(Note: no, there currently isn't one, as far as I am aware. I just have faith.)

:)

Oh, sweet worldbuilding, how I love thee!

Making up rules for stuff is always so much easier the first time, before you sit down and think, 'Hm. But what if *this* scenario occurred, or that one?' The fact that human laws in the real world still have all sorts of irritating problems annd doesn't-quite-fit exemptions and issues is consolation of a sort, but I've had to sternly disabuse myself of the notion that I can write a perfect, unflawed (or at least wholly consistent) set of social laws. Now, I just try and aim for believably flawed.

As someone who crafted on entire mythology on the systematic inheritance and/or prevention thereof of tarot-based powers across five different cultures and governments...

Word.

I would really love an outline of the firstborn and their magic smells. Not all of them (because OMG) but after Ashes, I've been pondering what they might be. If Quentin smells like steel and heather and Sylvester smells like dogwood and daffodil, are they descended from a common Firstborn? If Tybalt smells like pennyroyal and musk and Raj smells like pepper and burning paper, can they be descended from a common Firstborn? I love details like this.