Seanan McGuire (seanan_mcguire) wrote,
Seanan McGuire
seanan_mcguire

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The nature of feedback.

The human mind is an interesting thing. jimhines (who doesn't use tags, and hence isn't getting a link-back here—sorry, Jim!) posted a while back about how it takes ten positives to equal one negative, and he's basically right. I mean, seriously, think back. How many times have you seen a friend (or been the friend) who gets told "wow, that's a fantastic dress" twenty times, then gets told "that dress makes you look like a bloated rhino" once, and puts the dress away forever? Or better still, burns it?

We seem programmed to make negative connections much more quickly than we make positive ones. Example: when I was a kid, I loved-loved-loved strawberry ice cream. I loved it so much that I ate way more than I should have at my sixth birthday, and made myself sick. It was about ten years before I could eat strawberry ice cream again. Another example: I had a big fight with a close friend over a book that she liked and I didn't. I now feel sick whenever I think about re-reading the book to see if I might like it better the second time, because it is forever linked in my mind to the feeling of being yelled at by someone I trusted.

We make positive connections, too—the treasured doll, the lucky T-shirt, the special song that was playing when you kissed your high school sweetheart for the first time (sadly, in my case, the song was by Gwar)—but they tend to be slower to form, which I think is a tragic flaw in the human emotional programming. (I can also see how this is a survival trait, since the ten non-venomous snakes you catch do not keep the eleventh snake from killing you. This does not change the part where I'd really rather be happy for ten snakes than petrified because of that potential future snake with the bitey, bitey fangs.)

I find it sort of depressing that one unkind word can shatter a good mood, especially because we seem so easy with the idea of slinging nastiness at one another—an ease that just grows with anonymity and the Internet (see also Gabe's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory). The resonance of negativity is tempting, because it's intoxicatingly powerful. If I'm having a bad day, everybody can be having a bad day, right? Yay! Bad days for everybody!

It's tiresome. I'd rather just have cupcakes and street pennies for everybody. The human brain is a mysterious and messed-up thing, and there are days when I really just want to take it apart with a chainsaw.

ETA: Jim found the post for me! Yay for Jim!
Tags: contemplation, cranky blonde is cranky
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  • 77 comments
I do too use tags! Not a lot, but I use 'em. I think that was a Twitter update, not a blog post, though.

But yes. The negative hits so much harder, and tends to last a lot longer, and it's infuriating. Pops up with writing and reviews too, as I'm sure you know. I hate that 9/10 people could love a book, and my brain will keep thinking about that 10th review.

So ... cupcakes, you say? :-)
I distinctly remember it being a blog post, because it was long, long before I was on twitter.

I make excellent cupcakes. My candy corn cupcakes are to die for, assuming I get the sugar balances right and don't set the kitchen on fire (again).

I didn't sing in public for a good six years because of one guy being a jerk.

jimhines

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

wcg

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

I read somewhere once that processing and absorbing negative information once ensured our survival as a species. Cave men who said 'Look, Grug, is nice day!' tended to get eaten by sabertoothed tigers more often than guys like Grug, who would say 'Yes, but tiger nearby, hunting, be careful.' In other words, it was more helpful to us to notice the dangers and negativity than to notice the pretty flowers and sunshine.

Like a lot of things though, we still carry these behaviors forward, long after most of their usefulness has passed.
Oh, it totally guarantees survival of the species, since Grug's the one who lives to breed. I'm just not sure it's nearly as helpful as it used to be, since we're all piled on top of one another, being jerks.
I've found that the internet has enabled the negative bloggers and jerks to be even more critical and nasty. I'm a college football geek nerd (woof woof woof GO GEORGIA!!!) and the sheer cruelty and trollic behaviour that hides behind the anonymity (where is spell check when I need it?) of a blog pseudonym is outrageous and some of the comments still irritate me, even though I KNOW they're not true and that if the person on the other end actually knew me, they'd never write those comments (because I'm a nice guy that can be prone to violence if coerced). I guess for most people, the negative catches your attention and the positive is background noise.
It's the fuckwad theory. I think it's also an aspect of our culture. If I say "wow, Amy looks amazing today," I'm "inflating her ego" or "unfairly praising her"—sort of the "better to give than to receive" ethos as applied to interpersonal dynamics. Whereas if I say "wow, that dress makes Hilda look like a house," I'm making everyone who isn't Hilda feel better, while giving Hilda a "well-earned reality check."

Humans are awesome. Also why I carry a chainsaw.

bearhand

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

filkferengi

7 years ago

bearhand

7 years ago

alanajoli

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

I hate that aspect of human emotional programming.
So do I.

paradisacorbasi

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

paradisacorbasi

7 years ago

If you find the street penny in your cupcake does that mean you have to go the bonfire at the end of harvest?

Also, good post. I was just explaining this to someone the other day.
Yes. Yes, it does. Absolutely. Also, now I need to bake some cupcakes...

ladymondegreen

7 years ago

dornbeast

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

dornbeast

7 years ago

archangelbeth

7 years ago

Unfortunately I get suspicious of the positive because I have been subject to the backhanded compliment all my life. The "You could be pretty if...", "You could be successful if..." and so on. That is also a danger.
It's a danger, but I'd say that's just the trapdoor spider of negativity. It's not a true positive.

paradisacorbasi

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

kyrielle

7 years ago

Along the lines of making lemonade from lemons, is there something about this you could use in a future book? The fae can be nasty mean to one another, as you've often noted. Maybe you can have some kind of hard won learning experience for Toby or some other character that involves realizing how negative comments take on disproportionate weight.
...I don't think so. It's a little After-School Special for this series, although it might work in my YA.

wcg

7 years ago

One reason for the difference could be that people assume that a compliment may just be a way to be polite, but an insult always comes from sincere and strong motivation.
I think people do assume that. It's wrong on both counts; not only are compliments frequently sincere, but insults are frequently not.

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

Two things:

I cried when Bryon gave me a Mrs. Beasley for Christmas 5 years ago. She was my dearest childhood friend, and it also reminded me of a much more innocent time before my family turned awful.

Disassociation is too real. I had an anime series I loved until it was banged about by too many. You are so right.

I guess maybe the secret is to be thick skinned and not let things get you. I have yet to learn that secret, all the time.

Catherine
I'm also not sure becoming truly thick-skinned is worth the loss of all the cupcakes and street pennies and other wonderful things that can only really get through thin skins. So I guess there's a balance to it all. It's just a very hard one to hit, at least for me.
<img src="http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af71/valdary/cupcake.jpg> A cupcake I originally made for <lj user=cupcake_goth> but I think it might be your style as well. Sorry no pumpkins, and if you got multiple notifications of this comment its because I had an html meltdown and am about to scream.
Breathe deeply.

A cupcake I originally made for cupcake_goth but I think it might be your style as well. Sorry no pumpkins, and if you got multiple notifications of this comment its because I had an html meltdown and am about to scream.

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

Deleted comment

I think most of us do. It's sad, and I sometimes wonder if it's not the cause of a lot of negativity. After all, if you've upset me by stepping on my anthill, why shouldn't I set your car on fire, right?
There's a reason why the sending of anonymous hate mail through the post is illegal, and I do wish the internet would shape up a little in this respect sometimes. I've seen some hateful examples of cyber-bullying and general vileness in almost every community I am in, and amongst almost every age groups. My 'favourite' being the person who believed he had the right not only to flame but to track down and assault anyone who disagreed with him but simultaneously claimed an absolute right to be as vile as he wished to anyone else without them being allowed any defence or come-back.
I am dreadful at bad reviews and such. They really derail me. The worst, though, was when someone I thought was a friend savaged me for writing fiction on the grounds that me writing made some-one else feel inadequate. I was so shocked and so off-balanced I didn't write proper fiction again for a decade. (I am so the author not to imitate.)
Writing and putting your writing out there is a risk. It's understandable that we are anxious about it.
The worst, though, was when someone I thought was a friend savaged me for writing fiction on the grounds that me writing made some-one else feel inadequate.

Me, a complete stranger on the internet, would like to say that if your writing makes people feel inadequate -- presumably because you're good at it -- I am distinctly P.O.ed at that "friend" because I am always happy to read good authors. Good authors are role models and inspirations, not hurdles to be torn down so you can stand on their crushed egos. O:p

(And I didn't write for a year after a C- in a so-called "writing fiction" class, so I know what you mean about bad reviews sucking. Happily, gaming fiction got me back doing it again. Now, if I can just get this bonsai edit finished, I can go back to stalking agents' submission guidelines...)

la_marquise_de_

7 years ago

archangelbeth

7 years ago

miintikwa

7 years ago

la_marquise_de_

7 years ago

miintikwa

7 years ago

seanan_mcguire

7 years ago

You have a somewhat odd view of venomous snakes for somebody who likes snakes. The venomous ones are not markedly different in temperment than the nonvenomous ones, and in many cases are easier to handle and gentler than their closest physical counterparts. Give me a cottonmouth over a typical Nerodia any time; I can get the cottonmouth "tamed" to gentle handling about ten times faster. Srsly.

Granted, the consequences are worse by an order of magnitude if you screw up and get bitten, but if you use safe tools and techniques it's actually pretty hard to get bitten, especially by your average mellow, laid-back venomous snake on the end of a snake hook.
I understand that; it's just a fairly useful metaphor for human reaction to negative responsiveness. I mean, the rattlesnake is the single politest venomous snake to share a state with, and yet everyone has a horror story about the one person who was stupid and jammed a rattler with a stick.

I love snakes. I'd rather have a chillin' cobra than a cranky cornsnake any day. But wow does that take a week to explain to most people. :)
I was a kid, I loved-loved-loved strawberry ice cream.

I did the same thing .. and I still have the aversion to strawberry ice cream... I shared a half gallon of the stuff with my dog, while sitting on the back porch.
I bet the dog didn't like it much after that either.

martianmooncrab

7 years ago

I think we reinforce negative comments more then positive ones because they're so much more likely to spin us around a logical and emotional circle. To absorb negative feedback, we need to think through the situation, changing things until we end up with the right outcome. If we think everything through and there isn't anything we want to change, we end up starting over. The more times we think it through, the stronger the impression is. If we're just using the wrong approach (for example thinking that an argument is about a book being good or not, when the argument is really about a friend usurping our right to an opinion) we just keep going over and over the same ground whenever we are reminded of it, increasing the impact of the negative comment.
Very true. I appreciate the perspective.
Man do I know this feeling.

I was honestly pondering not renewing the domain for Kismetropolis since I get little to no feedback on it and there are scant few positives to counterbalance the Your Webcomic Is Bad And You Should Feel Bad "review" (read: trollflamehellpost) that made me feel miserable, and the people telling me "well, separate out the rudeness and crudity and see the valid criticism".

Positives are like butterflies that land on your nose, flap prettily for a second, and fly away.

Negatives are like those giant freaking mosquitoes from Land of the Lost that knock you flat and make it hard to get back up again.
I like that image. I have a butterfly net.

Deleted comment

The other thing is that we're really encouraged to remember negativity and insults because they "must have a grain of truth," but if we dwell on compliments, we're being "vain and egotistical." Not fair!

You always make me happy, and I am complimented just by the fact that you're my friend. It says I'm a better person than the negativity sometimes makes me think I am. :)

Love you lots, see you soon.

kyrielle

October 3 2009, 17:41:48 UTC 7 years ago Edited:  October 3 2009, 17:46:59 UTC

This and argh and bleh. I so hate that aspect of psychology. As well as the people who, you know, trip it all the time. Does not need to be done, folks. Honest.

Candy corn cupcakes: yum.

Speaking of which, I have found soft pumpkin cookies. From Cougar Mountain, they have pumpkin as a main ingredient and taste pumpkinny.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm COOKIES.
1. I completely agree.

2. Penny Arcade, and Jon Gabriel's Geater Internet Fuckwad Theory, are awesome.

3. I Quit by Hepburn is an awesome song, not least because it's from the original Buffy soundtrack. Yay pop culture!
That was an awesome album. SO AWESOME. That, and the soundtrack to Veronica Mars = two of the best TV soundtracks ever.

sysrae

7 years ago